Talk:Sulam

A fact from Sulam appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 12 May 2010 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that the Arab village of Sulam is identified with the ancient Shunama mentioned in the 14th century BCE Amarna letters, and with biblical Shunem?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2010/May.

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more refs

Tsafrir (p236: 181223) gives: "Eus., On. 158, 11-12 • Petro Diac., LS P 3 (CCSL 175,p. 98: Some) Guerin, Galilee I, pp. 112-114 • LS, p. 107 • GP II, pp. 470-471 • Yalqut, par. 45 • Bagatti, Galilea, pp. 286-290 • Gazetteer, p. 98 • Zori, The Land of Issachar, pp. 55-57, no. 86 • Tepper, Shahar, in Hiding Complexes, pp. 288-290 • Reeg, Ortsnamen,pp.599-600".

The first is Eusebius of Caesarea, Onomasticon, ed. E. Klostermann, Das Onomastikon der biblischen Ortsnamen, GCS 11 i, Leipzig, 1904" pubished about 300.

- I've mentioned what I can find about what Eusebius says about Sulam. Tiamut^talk 14:43, 1 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

LS refers to Arculf's pilgrimage ca 681-684. See De Locis Sanctis. The edition cited is "Petrus Diaconus, Liber de locis sanctis, edd. I. Fraipont and R Weber, in Itineraria et alia geographica, CCSL 175, Turnhout, 1965, pp. 37-47; 93, 103; 252-278 [1137, partly deriving from 4th-cent. It. Eg.]" CCSL="Corpus Christianorum, Series Latina, Turnhout". Apparently my library has it. Zero^talk 05:25, 1 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Guerin, Galilee I, pp. 112-114 has history and description.
- I only seem to be able to access Guerin's work on Judea and Samaria. Anyone know if there is a free copy of his Galilee works online? Tiamut^talk 15:06, 1 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  - I don´t think so, yet. I´m following the development quite closely in the "library-section": G, H, I, and updating it each time a new volume is made available. Huldra (talk) 15:28, 1 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I found all seven volumes at archive.org, many in two copies. Watch my talk page for links. Zero^talk 02:59, 2 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

~~Crusaders: Suna (according to SWP)~~
~~SWP (sheet 9, Nj): II, 87.~~
aka, Solam, Solem, Sulem, Shunem, Shunama
~~Robinson (travels 1838, vol II) p324-5.~~
Dauphin, p737. archaeology
~~Hadashot Arkheologiyot: [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7]~~
Mentioned in at least two Amarna letters of 14th century BC (Soulem/Shunama/Shumanu/etc). [8] [9] [10] (I didn't find a very clean summary in a good source.) Zero^talk 01:34, 1 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Found some interesting info on that here, and added it using this as a source. Tiamut^talk 12:12, 1 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
"Dictionary of deities and demons in the Bible, DDD" by K. van der Toorn, Bob Becking, Pieter Willem van der Horst. [11] This a very learned source, by the way. I can read both pages of the Shunama entry at Amazon.
A 1939 survey map writes "Al Ajami" just on the southern edge of Sulam. Do we know what that was? Zero^talk 07:58, 1 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- The only place I know by the name of Ajami is a neighborhood in Jaffa. But I'll do some more digging to see what comes up. Tiamut^talk 12:17, 1 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Robinson, and Berggren

I think the "Berggren" Robinson refers to as having visited Sulam in 1822 is the Swede Jacob Berggren, see Resor i Europa och Österländerne, 1826, vol 1. I´m trying to find the Sulam-ref. (Yeah: I can read it: Swedish really hasn´t changed that much these last 200 years). Not all of his books are on the net, though, and I think Robinson refers to a German edition.
Also, Robinson notes that it is on the Jacotin-map..perhaps a "cut-out"?

*I don't know what you mean by "cut-out". It is on the Acre map with the name Soùlin. Zero^talk 04:24, 30 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

By "cut-out", I mean like this, something which can go into the article. Interestingly, from the Jacotin-map, we can see that Sulam was very close to the Battle of Mount Tabor. Huldra (talk) 14:14, 30 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, sure...but tomorrow. Zero^talk 14:40, 30 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

And note the fascinating story, that Robinson p324-325 in 1838 was invited by the "keeper of the Wely of Duhy" to visit it, noting that is was often visited by monks. Now, that "Wely of Duhy" cannot be any other than Nabi Dahi... Huldra (talk) 20:35, 29 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

map

Here is a map showing Sulam in relation to Nazareth in 1937, with road revision to 1939. Ad Dahi is on here too. Zero^talk 08:13, 1 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

And here is a similar area on the Jacotin map. Zero^talk 09:12, 1 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

"Hiatus in settlement 13th-19th century": where? Only in limited area?

There might be a contradiction between the administrative Ottoman source + Jacotin from the History paragraph and archaeological findings (Dalali-Amos 2009). But: Dalali-Amos #2 apparently only refers to the tell and specifically to areas north of the spring; maybe the 1596 register and Jacotin are referring to other areas. We should keep an eye on it. Accurate understanding of the details, even when gained from rushed-through summaries from Hadashot Arlheologiyot or alike, is sometimes essential, or we end up with 600 years of abandonment where there was none. Or maybe there was, but not to this magnitude. A spring in the Jezreel Valley area should guarantee a large degree of continuity, I can only think of malaria as a reason that might have put off people from settling. Arminden (talk) 21:36, 16 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]