Talk:Suicide terminology

Work in progress

This article, in its present form, is a starting point. I'll work on expanding it and resolving issues over time. First project will include expanding content into various sections, and linking to other articles. Markhenick (talk) 18:21, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

"no resultant injuries, regardless of the degree of injury or lethality of method"

What does that mean exactly? Gigs (talk) 19:28, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

To suicide one needs to self-inflict injury of some sort.

So what it means is that the self-injurious action (the intended cause used to die) is not considered the same as the resulting body damage. In suicide, the former is supposed to have as a consequence (through violent pain, generally, whether fast or excruciatingly slow) fatal physical conditions. If you will, it conveys the distinction between self-harm (also referred as parasuicide at times) and suicide attempt.

There're legal implications so to classify the actions and responsibilities in the legal context (think of people suing those who made them get so depressed in time to have them attempt suicide.. absurd topic to manage). So, basically this page is exclusively about legal, instead of the general terminology as you would expect from an encyclopedia anyway. 2A00:23C4:714F:FA00:FD33:95C1:E1B1:46BA (talk) 23:59, 25 December 2017 (UTC)

Dealing with the term "Suicidal Gesture"... and other suggestions

Hello,

I'm incredibly grateful that this page exists.

My 10 year old son has been in therapy for suicidal ideation since he was 5. Last weekend he made a noose, tied it to his bunk bed and put his head in it. A number of mental health professionals in major institutions in New York City called this a "Suicidal Gesture." Googling the term led to great confusion, and unfortunately, Wikipedia hasn't been the best source for helping me understand the term or the mental health crisis that the term implies.

I have a lot of suggestions, and will happily put in some time to edit suicide related pages.

My first suggestion would be that the term "Suicidal Gesture" should not automatically redirect to "Suicide Terminology/Suicide Attempt" (or any other page). Instead "Suicidal Gesture" could have a brief sentence or two identifying it as out dated and that it is identified as a form of "Suicide Related Communication"

Further a page "Suicide Related Communication" could be created to which suicide terms direct from within Wikipedia searches and when those terms are Googled...

Thus, when I Google "Suicidal Gesture" you don't immediately get directed to a 3 sentence disclaimer about the obvious sad state of "Suicidal Terminology" but instead immediately get something useful and perhaps life saving such as a one sentence description of the 3 levels of suicide intent, the difference between a threat and a plan and, perhaps, how very important it is for a mental health professional to immediately determine the level of suicidal intent if someone has made any kind of "Suicide Related Communication."

I'd also highly suggest that after a one sentence explanation of "Suicide Related Communication" a link and phone number be provided to a suicide prevention hotline and perhaps to nami.org, dbsalliance.org and/or another mental health non profit organization.

I just donated $10 to Wikipedia and have set up a monthly donation. This website is an extraordinary resource that I look forward to contributing further time and resources.

Thanks, Pete PeterKBertineJr (talk) 18:21, 16 December 2018 (UTC)

RFC on "committed suicide"

There is a RFC on the use of "Committed suicide" language open at VPP, with the intention to add language to MOS:BIO on a consensus-based conclusion. The RFC is here: WP:VPP#RFC: "Committed suicide" language. Kolya Butternut (talk) 15:47, 17 January 2021 (UTC)

Move discussion at Suicidal ideation

It has been proposed that Suicidal ideation be renamed and moved to Suicidal thoughts. There is a move discussion in progress at Talk:Suicidal ideation. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. Kolya Butternut (talk) 06:01, 14 February 2021 (UTC)

Opposition to the term "commit" suicide

″For example, when someone dies by cancer, it is not the norm to say the person "committed" cancer.″

I just want to say that this is an incredibly dumb example. Suicide is an action, cancer is not. I think it's best to present it as an idiom to show it has no medical/legal/administrative usage nowadays. I think the transitive verb "commit" is used to give a grand scale or spectacle to the act, or to imply a profound impact on society, regardless of the connotations. --105.225.161.187 (talk) 11:50, 27 June 2021 (UTC)

Contradiction

“A suicide attempt is defined as a self-inflicted, potentially injurious behavior with a nonfatal outcome for which there is evidence (either explicit or implicit) of intent to die. A suicide attempt may result in no injuries, injuries, or death”

How can it both be nonfatal, and potentially resultant in death? 2600:1004:B06F:9628:9866:9565:747C:4767 (talk) 05:19, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

Not a contradiction. An attempt is something that could have resulted in death, but didn't. If someone jumps off a building but survives (95-98% fatality rate for >150 feet on land, >250 feet on water, per a cite I found of Geo Stone, Suicide and Attempted Suicide, 1999), takes what could have been a lethal amount of something but either they got medical treatment in time to counteract it (eg by gastric lavage, activated carbon, naloxone, etc) or it just wasn't certain to begin with (LD50 does after all mean only 50% of cases at that dose result in death), etc. etc. — those are all potentially lethal but have a nonfatal outcome. Sai ¿?✍ 14:34, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

Sommer-Rotenberg article

That article looks scientific, but it is only 2 pages and is more of an editorial. The linguistic content is weak. I think this reference should not be used. In particular, the passage quoted says that "to commit suicide" and "Selbstmord begehen" are acts of commission. "Act of commission" is not a linguistic term. Presumably, agentivity or volitionality are intended. This is then contrasted with "se suicider" and "uccidersi", which are reflexive. But reflexivity and "commission" are orthogonal. English "To kill oneself" is reflexive and "committed", so this whole opposition does not make any sense.

The article also states that the only acts we commit are heinous ones. This is not correct. I quote from Merriam-Webster:

1: to carry into action deliberately : perpetrate commit a crime commit a sin

2: obligate, bind a contract committing the company to complete the project on time in a committed relationship b: to pledge or assign to some particular course or use commit all troops to the attack c: to reveal the views of refused to commit himself on the issue

3 a

to put into charge or trust : entrust

… commit all executive, legislative, and judicial powers to one man …—Arthur T. Vanderbilt

b

to place in a prison or mental institution

The patient was committed by the court to a mental hospital. He was committed to the state penitentiary for 10 years

c

to consign or record for preservation

commit it to memory

d

to put into a place for disposal or safekeeping

The chaplain committed the sailor's body to the deep.

e

to refer (something, such as a legislative bill) to a committee for consideration and report

We can add the software versioning use of "commit".

This article could never have been published in a linguistics journal, and it should not be used on Wikipedia, not any more than linguists' views on medicine should be used in medical articles.

I suggest the removal of this misleading passage Jasy jatere (talk) 14:31, 17 October 2023 (UTC)