Talk:Suicide Silence (album)

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Metal

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Should deathcore really be added to the genres?

We all know this is definitely a nu metal album, but would it be fair to still call it deathcore as well? I mean, I don't think there are any sources referring to it as deathcore. In fact, many of them say that it isn't a deathcore record. What do you guys think? Maybe we can add metalcore too? TheEarthboundFan2001 (talk) 03:31, 25 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

There are definitely moments of deathcore in here, and several sources that are linked to the page mention moments which sound similar to the band's old style (such as the second half of Hold Me Up, Hold Me Down). VampireKilla (talk) 18:00, 27 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

i dont even understand why anyone calls this album nu metal. it doesn't sound anything like nu metal to me. the only thing that sounds moderately nu metal is the first half of hold me up hold me down. 47.176.9.34 (talk) 17:43, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It should be just nu metal and maybe hard rock — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.167.232.114 (talk) 23:25, 26 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Also alternative metal is definitely a fitting genre for this too. Many people cite some songs as sounding like Tool and Deftones, both of which are alternative metal bands (early Deftones was nu metal though). Also, the song "Don't Be Careful, You Might Hurt yourself" has a riff that is similar sounding to their older riffs. TheEarthboundFan2001 (talk) 15:45, 2 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This album is most definitely a departure from their old style, but please remember deathcore is a pretty diverse genre; bands like Upon a Burning Body and Bring Me the Horizon don't sound much like Suicide Silence at all and are certainly nowhere near as heavy but still get slapped with the deathcore label a lot. I didn't care for this album but I think it was the band trying to push the limits of a genre they basically pioneered. It's been a staple of their music from the moment they formed with Mitch so I think it should at least be given a nod. The Shadow-Fighter (talk) 14:03, 9 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Alternative metal is not sourced. Two reliable sources identify the album as nu metal. 68.185.2.34 (talk) 19:08, 2 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

There literally isnt a single moment of deathcore in the album. Just because there's heavy parts doesn't mean there's deathcore elements. Second Skin (talk) 01:32, 20 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This discussion is over five years old, and your observation means nothing to Wikipedia. Deathcore isn't even discussed as a part of this album right now anyway. dannymusiceditor ^oops 05:21, 20 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

can you believe people still read things even if it's "five years old"? Second Skin (talk) 01:21, 21 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Reviews

Writing on the response to the album was clearly biased to fans angered that SS made an album that is not deathcore. There were many positive and mixed critical reviews that I added. More can probably be found online. --68.185.2.34 (talk) 20:22, 1 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Header note on the top of the page to distinguish the EP and full-length album apart?

Because the band have two releases that are both self-titled, I cant decide if it would be necessary or not, but would this be a good idea to add at the top of the article?

"

I was debating on, but I was not sure if the "(EP)" dab in the title of the article is good enough as it is and does its job well enough to distinguish the two releases apart. Otherwise adding something like "This article is for the band's 2017 full-length, for the 2005 self-titled EP see Suicide Silence (EP)" or something like that might be appropriate. Otherwise just leaving it out altogether is fine with me too Second Skin (talk) 12:20, 29 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Introductory sentence

Introductory sentence should be "American deathcore band" and not "American metal band". Changing the lead genre to match the band's article no matter what genre is the album. The lead genre should be broad. I know that nobody will even read this but whatever somebody just want a consensus then there you have it. --Tobi999tomas (talk) 17:25, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

if you want a broad lead genre than it should be metal, deathcore is a subgenre of metal --FMSky (talk) 17:31, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, but the problem is that the band itself is described as deathcore, not heavy metal. If we have to change it to heavy metal, we must do it on all pages, not just one page in particular. It's like Bring Me the Horizon, their only deathcore album is Count Your Blessings and just because of one album we have to change the introductory sentence to "British deathcore band" while the rest is "British rock band"? I don't think so. It should be consistent to match the band's article. --Tobi999tomas (talk) 18:56, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

No, we dont. It can be different descriptors on different pages, it doesnt have to be the same genre everywhere --FMSky (talk) 18:57, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

But it should be. Even the most notable page, such as Metallica is consistent. Sure, the first four albums are thrash metal, but in the end they also play two different genres of metal. So in the end, instead of "American thrash metal band", they are written in all pages as "American heavy metal band". So they are two options to resolve this, either write Suicide Silence as "American deathcore band" or as "American heavy metal band". None of them are wrong. --Tobi999tomas (talk) 19:42, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

metal works better in this case cause in the 2nd sentence it already says "departure from deathcore" so its a bit contradictory --FMSky (talk) 21:08, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

So can we agree that "American heavy metal band" will be in the introductory sentence in all the pages related to the band? Since they played more than just deathcore, then I guess heavy metal would be better for the lead. Lead genres should be broad. --Tobi999tomas (talk) 11:19, 14 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

No, imo deathcore is more accurate for the other articles, just not in this particular case --FMSky (talk) 17:05, 14 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, but that does not make any sense. Tobi999tomas (talk) 17:48, 14 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

it makes sense to me. the band is known for their deathcore work more than anything else. it doesn't make sense to call them a heavy metal band simply because they had a single foray into a different genre with one album. 47.176.9.34 (talk) 17:46, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RfC

Should the introductory sentence be "American deathcore band" or "American metal band"? Changing the lead genre to match the band's article no matter what genre is the album. The band itself is described as deathcore, not heavy metal. If we have to change it to heavy metal, we must do it on all pages, not just one page in particular. The biggest example, Bring Me the Horizon. Their only deathcore album is Count Your Blessings and just because of one album we have to change the introductory sentence to "British deathcore band" while the rest is "British rock band"? I don't think so. Even the most notable page, such as Metallica is consistent. Sure, the first four albums are thrash metal, but in the end they also play two different genres of metal. So in the end, instead of "American thrash metal band", they are written in all pages as "American heavy metal band". So they are two options to resolve this, either write Suicide Silence as "American deathcore band" or as "American heavy metal band". None of them are wrong. So can we agree that "American heavy metal band" will be in the introductory sentence in all the pages related to the band? Since they played more than just deathcore, then I guess heavy metal would be better for the lead. Lead genres should be broad. If not, "American deathcore band" should be in the introductory sentence. --Tobi999tomas (talk) 11:56, 1 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I concur with FMSky in the discussion above this so-called RfC. "If we have to change it to heavy metal, we must do it on all pages" simply is not true. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 20:22, 1 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
(Summoned by bot) I concur with FMSky & SMcCandlish, there is no reason why the band and the album should be the same genre. Especially since the album text says "The album is a notable departure from their deathcore signature musical style,. I'm not competent to evaluate the distinct genres in this instance, but the general point holds true - Comic actors don't always take on comic roles etc. Pincrete (talk) 09:41, 6 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I actually agree with Tobi999tomas. Obviously it's not inaccurate to say they're a metal band, but the discrepancy is a little strange. If it doesn't matter either way, then it seems silly to not have them match ("them" being the album intro sentence and the band's main page intro sentence). If they came out with a ska album just for kicks, you wouldn't describe them as "the ska band Suicide Silence" in the album article. So yes, I think they should match, preferably "deathcore" if that is their established genre throughout their catalog (I'm not a fan of deathcore, so I wouldn't know personally). Hopefully I understood the issue correctly. Scapulus (talk) 12:05, 6 January 2023 (UTC-7)
I'm torn. I actually somewhat agree with Tobi here. Neither tag is inaccurate, as they noted, but having some degree of consistency should be the call here. I think personally it should be "metal band" or "heavy metal band", my preference being the former. Two differences in the BMTH example exist, being that Count Your Blessings was their debut and they have since not returned to the style; with the exception of this album, SS consistently have been deathcore, so I could also get behind labeling them deathcore here since they've been that way the vast majority of their career. I could even find labeling the band "metal" in the leads of the albums but having the band article remain deathcore a reasonable solution. What I'm against is having the two terms vary between album articles. Let's come up with one here, and set that for the albums. If we need to, we can worry about the band article another time. dannymusiceditor ^oops 23:47, 6 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
A decision must be made. "American deathcore band" is better because for the consistency and the genre they play. Sure, their self-titled album isn't deathcore, but it doesn't mean that the latter has some kind of "special treatment". After this album, the band never played any other genre than deathcore, so the change is ridiculous. If the band continue with the sound, of course it's better to change the introductory sentence but since that isn't the case, it really should be "American deathcore band". So I think we have to create a vote to conclude this for once. --Tobi999tomas (talk) 14:47, 27 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]