Talk:Stratospheric aerosol injection

citations

Boris tag for 'existing technology'. How can I reference that existing stuff exists? Isn't it kinda self evident that weather balloons and planes exist?Andrewjlockley (talk) 11:18, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

You have to show not just that they exist, but that a reliable source has noted their suitability in the present context. Please read WP:SYN carefully -- many of the objections raised toward your edits arise from similar concerns. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 16:19, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Example: do you see how this edit[1] removed a misleading implication/synthesis? Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 16:42, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

I tidied up a bit, do you like it? The F15 statement is still unsourced but I don't like fact-tagging pictures, it's anorak.Andrewjlockley (talk) 23:37, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Yezpahr How about some patents that are in the patent database. Patents that show the machines that do this? Here they are, pick some of these: Patents on Aerosol Spraying. 15:12, 5 December 2010 (UTC

tasks

0pen tasks

• Replace any non-notable links with sci. papers etc.
• Check references cited support claims in article
• Convert bare urls to cite-webs

Andrewjlockley (talk) 09:40, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Edit summaries

Will editors please assume WP:GOODFAITH and stick to WP:CIVILITY, particularly as regards edit summaries. ThanksAndrewjlockley (talk) 10:16, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

I'm a newcomer to this topic, but it seems to me that the article is slipping towards development of and advocacy for a geoengineering approach rather than a description of something that exists. Hughesdavidw (talk) 08:49, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Move?

The IPCC calls this technique a sub-set of 'stratospheric reflective aerosols'

Stratospheric Reflecting Aerosols. This technique involves the controlled scattering of incoming sunlight with airborne sub-microscopic particles that would have a stratospheric residence time of about 5 years. Teller et al. (2004) suggest that the particles could be: (a) dielectrics; (b) metals; (c) resonant scatterers. Crutzen (2006) proposes (d) sulphur particles. The implications of these schemes, particularly with regard to stratospheric chemistry, feasibility and costs, require further assessment (Cicerone, 2006).

Should we move this to that title, and include more detail on Teller et al? Andrewjlockley (talk) 19:32, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

SSA(g)

Please evidence your comment about the F15C. Which other suitable aircraft do you belive exist.Andrewjlockley (talk) 03:46, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

What reliable source has mentioned use of the F15-C for this purpose? Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 03:48, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Not the point. What reliable source have you got to show that another plane would do? (copying to article TP)Andrewjlockley (talk) 01:03, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

It is the contributing editor who has the burden of providing references. Not the other way around. --Kim D. Petersen (talk) 01:05, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

There's no dispute that the F15 works. Boris suggests other planes can be used. That's WP:OR. I'll rv. shortly.Andrewjlockley (talk) 09:21, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

There is dispute - i dispute it, right here. Now please supply a reference that specifies using an F15 for aerosol injection. --Kim D. Petersen (talk) 09:30, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for the citation. Its not disputed any longer. (although the source seems to be an (as yet) un-refereed paper) --Kim D. Petersen (talk) 09:44, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

That why I mentioned it as a suggestion, not a statement of capabilities. My various detractors might be interested to join the [[2]] and [[3]] groups, and then they'd see that I'm not making all this stuff up.Andrewjlockley (talk) 10:00, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

If you had given the citation to begin with, all this could have been avoided. Note we can't use Google Groups as sources for the article. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 13:15, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

If it was available to begin with, I would have given it. You can use a GG citation, but only for what someone's said.Andrewjlockley (talk) 02:05, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

A Google group citation would certainly not be a reliable source in any way or form. GG doesn't have any form of moderation or editorial control. (ie. it wouldn't even be acceptable as a self published source, since we can't be certain about the identity of the poster. --Kim D. Petersen (talk) 23:44, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Well if it's got Ken Caldeira's email address, and it's signed by Ken Caldeira, then I think that it's more reliably authored by Ken Caldeira than would be a book that's been through numberous editing cycles or a journalist misquoting him in a newspaper. I'm sorry if that's inconvenient for anyone, but it is withoiut doubt a reliable source, and one that's admissable in court.Andrewjlockley (talk) 08:12, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Geostationary satellite system / elevator?

Is there any research about geostationary satellites / space elevators as being one possible solution for the aerosol distribution problem? // On a different issue: someone has the page content pasted in a second time; was there a reason for that? 134.39.92.59 (talk) 23:51, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Er... I've seen space elevators mentioned, but can't recall seeing them in a paper. That was for launching space mirrors though. You wouldn't use them for aerosols - why build something 22,000miles when you only need 10? Andrewjlockley (talk) 00:42, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Bizarre traffic spike

Anyone know why this article was getting nearly a thousand hits a day earlier this month? Andrewjlockley (talk) 00:44, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

How, may I ask, do you know the amount of hits a wiki page gets? Anyways, I can answer that question for you. It has to do with the term "chemtrails", and people researching this topic has now gone into overdrive, because.................................--Cantsi Wontsi (talk) 13:27, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Install WP:TW twinkleAndrewjlockley (talk) 17:18, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

I have been trying to tell the folks at the chemtrails page that the term is being used by many to refer to Stratospheric sulfate aerosols (geoengineering), but no one will believe me. they insist the term only refers to conspiracy theories and therefore insist the article be entitled "Chemtrail conspiracy theories" rather than "Chemtrails" - regardless of the obvious POV. 174.74.68.103 (talk) 06:51, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Acid Rain

A discussion of acid rain (as a side effect of stratospheric sulfur) is advisable. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sdh6 (talk • contribs) 13:04, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

It's not generally seen as likely. If you can suggest sources, then feel free to propose text based on them. Andrewjlockley (talk) 23:27, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Here's a source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_rain#Chemical_processes — Preceding unsigned comment added by Deathmare (talk • contribs) 16:13, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Cost estimates

The entire point of this idea is that it's super-cheap compared to everything else proposed so far. So the focus of the article should be on cost of this relative to alternatives, but there was not a single figure mentioned!

I added one source [4]'s estimate, but we need:

• more estimates of cost of this method,
• and estimates of cost of alternatives.

So please help and add those if you can find them. Taw (talk) 06:53, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

I agree with you that it is near-meaningless without costs. However many approaches so far have just been on the can-it-be-done-at-all lines. Also, a raw cost $50 say is near meaningless. It really needs a cost in terms of $-per-tonne-of-CO2 emitted to make it comparable with the emissions costs William M. Connolley (talk) 07:02, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Reference to broken DOI

A reference was recently added to this article using the Cite DOI template. The citation bot tried to expand the citation, but could not access the specified DOI. Please check that the DOI [[doi:10.1088/1748-9326/4/4/045108 ]] has been correctly entered. If the DOI is correct, it is possible that it has not yet been entered into the CrossRef database. Please complete the reference by hand here. The script that left this message was unable to track down the user who added the citation; it may be prudent to alert them to this message. Thanks, Citation bot 2 (talk) 15:00, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Delivery

I believe Andrew Lockley proposed the use of long-barrel artillery, firing the projectiles with aerosols using a compressed gas (air, nitrogen, ...) Perhaps it can be mentioned ? See https://www.mail-archive.com/geoengineering@googlegroups.com/msg00664.html and http://www.ce-conference.org/design-practical-hardware-climate-engineering — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.130.220.63 (talk) 14:03, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

Proposed merge of Welsbach seeding into Stratospheric aerosol injection

Long neglected method with limited content Sadads (talk) 22:48, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

Very useful you merging these tiny forgotten articles as will save reader and editor time in future I think. I suggest for these ones which are very likely uncontroversial it would be much quicker for you to just do the merge and risk revert. Chidgk1 (talk) 06:50, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

doneChidgk1 (talk) 11:35, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

Proposed merge of Stratospheric Particle Injection for Climate Engineering into Stratospheric aerosol injection

The page Stratospheric Particle Injection for Climate Engineering is about one project started in 2011 that studied the idea of Stratospheric aerosol injection. It repeats some of all ideas here in Stratospheric aerosol injection and then includes additional metrics specific to the SPICE project. The SPICE project no longer seems active so it is confusing to have a separate page for it. I am pinging @Chidgk1: because you have worked on both of these pages whereas I stumbled on this topic. Thoughts? DaffodilOcean (talk) 13:10, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

• Support Yes short enough and related enoughChidgk1 (talk) 14:55, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

• Done DaffodilOcean (talk) 22:03, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

Add section on outdoor tests

COI disclosure: I am a founder of Make Sunsets.

• What I think should be changed:

A new paragraph should be added at end of outdoor research section. Suggested wording:

In 2022, startup Make Sunsets began releasing weather balloons containing sulfur dioxide. In response, the Mexican government threatened to ban solar geoengineering. Make Sunsets continues to release balloons in the United States. Additionally, independent researcher Andrew Lockley deployed sulfur dioxide to the stratosphere in the fall of 2021 or 2022.

• Why it should be changed:

It's relevant to known that 2 different groups have begun small-scale deployments.

• References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button):

Liseman (talk) 17:42, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

References

Reply 24-JUL-2023

  Edit request declined  

• Per WP:NOTNEWS.

Regards,  Spintendo  01:09, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

Need for counterargument to calcite as "safer" compound

When this article notes that adding or using calcite to the possible compounds used for SAI, as a safer addition/alternative, (as by Keith et al. "Stratospheric solar geoengineering without ozone loss" 2016) it should be noted that Cziczo et al. have argued that this is likely incorrect (Cziczo, M. Wolf, B. Gasparini, S. Münch, U. Lohmann, Unanticipated Side Effects of Stratospheric Albedo Modification Proposals Due to Aerosol Composition and Phase, (2019), Scientific Reports, 9, DOI https://doi.org/10.1038/s41598-019-53595-3) RPeel (talk) 12:52, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

"Stratospheric aerosol injection (climate engineering" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Stratospheric aerosol injection (climate engineering has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 February 13 § Stratospheric aerosol injection (climate engineering until a consensus is reached. Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 23:56, 13 February 2024 (UTC)