Talk:Stipe Miocic

Dubious claim about MLB baseball

This article claims that Miocic "received interest from Major League Baseball" which seems like a very dubious statement considering he played at very small school and did not produce great numbers. He also was never on any prospect/scouting lists, was not drafted even in the later rounds or invited to any type of tryout. The source given points to an article from an MMA website that also just says "he received interest from MLB teams" with absolutely no evidence to back it up. I cant find any verifiable source to back this claim up so I'm removing it.

If you think Miocic is Croatian, back it up.

I have a feeling this will fall on deaf ears, but IPs are continually editing this and other Miocic-related articles, replacing "American" with "Croatian". This needs a source. A Croatian flag on his trunks is not a source. Ancestral heritage is NOT the same as nationality. InedibleHulk (talk) 02:03, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

I don't know about Wikipedia standards, but on his official page ( http://www.stipe-miocic.com/fighter-bio/ ) there is his ethnicity. Now, if it is bad practice to write fighter's (or person's) ethnicity in basic info box, the article should stay as is. Otherwise, someone can add it, which wouldn't be me, as I am Croat myself and don't really care. 109.60.79.110 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 12:38, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

He was born and raised in Cheveland, Ohio. I understand that some people are very proud of his ancestry, but I agree with this post. Back it up. TY.54 (talk) 07:50, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

It is backed up with references, there is no issue about his Croatian ethnicity, but I doubt it is accurate to say Miocic is of Croatian nationality. He is of Croatian ethnicity, and that's a different thing. He was not born in Croatia.--Miki Filigranski (talk) 17:52, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

Croatian Americans or Croat Americans[a] (Croatian: Američki Hrvati or Hrvati u Americi) are Americans who have full or partial Croatian ancestry.

Stipe fits this definition, therefore he's croatian american. Quenreerer (talk) 13:12, 27 August 2019 (UTC)

Cleveland sports curse

There's some edit warring going on about this and whether it really broke the curse so I figured we should probably talk about it. First, should it even be included? It looks entirely trivial to me and it doesn't seem like the major sports outlets consider it a true breaking of the curse so what's the point? And of course the entire curse thing is entirely silly anyway. But if we do include it are giving to much space to the arguments something so silly and trivial? SQGibbon (talk) 22:19, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

everyone knows the cleveland curse is only to major sports franchises. so people should stop saying he broke it... noone in cleveland thinks that so why should anyone else. If you are following the same logic as saying stipe broke it, then the miz already broke it getting the wwe championship in 2010. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.207.250.71 (talk) 19:30, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Ok, the next question is, should we even mention the Cleveland Curse? As I said, it appears entirely trivial to me and if it's only Miocic fans who think he broke the curse then why mention it?

I agree that is it trivial for this article BECAUSE he didn't break it. The Cleveland sports curse is a big deal to those who are actually in Cleveland and to the sports world as a whole. The fact that the city of Cleveland as a whole didn't instantly burst in celebration just shows that Miocic's victory was not considered as breaking the curse (which as previously noted is directed towards the major sports franchises only). I agree with the previous posters than we should either include a disclaimer saying that most people do not consider it broken and provide other examples (such as The Miz) OR we exclude the curse in the wiki article completely. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.66.2.128 (talk) 13:26, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

Instant bursting. Hometown hero. Cleveland cheers. Not the whole city, but that doesn't literally happen for NBA champions, either. Just basketball fans. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:53, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

the article you cite also seems to believe that the drought it towards major sport franchises. Stipe Miocic is not a franchise and is not specifically endorsed by Cleveland from what I can tell.

what are the people's thoughts on Mickey Bey and Shawn Porter also getting titles "for Cleveland" then? do they count as having broken the curse? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.66.2.128 (talk) 13:30, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

It seems that there is a pretty strong consensus that the curse was not broken and that the article was done as a lighthearted joke, as no one actually believes that the sports curse was broken by this event. you can also check the cleveland curse wiki page for further discussion and see that it was not considered broken. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.207.250.71 (talk) 18:33, 25 May 2016 (UTC)

Ok,there is a problem brewing here. It is not up to us to determine if he broke the curse. That would be an example of original research. Our only function is to report what reliable sources claim. I haven't looked closely at the sources but it seems like at least some of them claim he broke the curse while others say he didn't. In the Cleveland sports curse article they do mention him along with the Miz and the old Cleveland soccer team without saying any of them broke the curse. In fact I think they have handled it well in that article.

What I think we need to do is have a couple of sources -- one for and one against -- and just mention that there is such a thing as the Cleveland sports curse and that his name was brought up in relation to it without us making a claim one way or the other. At the beginning I thought it might be entirely trivial but it seems like the whole issue might have legs so it might be worth mentioning without taking a position. SQGibbon (talk) 00:32, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

The Miz only showed up there as a pointy edit. Clearly not a sport, team or otherwise, and no sources count it. There's not much out there saying Miocic didn't break it, but there are some treating it as an ongoing drought, implying he didn't. Not sure if that counts as an opposing view, but if it does, it might make sense to cover it. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:47, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

as explained before, please do not put the claim that he has broken the curse when the general media consensus is that he has not. We have already discussed in this and in the talk page for the curse itself that Miocic should not be considered as breaking it if the Miz and even the Crush were not considered to break it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.207.250.71 (talk) 12:38, 27 May 2016 (UTC)

The difference is that CBS and FOX, half of the American Big Four networks, said Miocic broke the curse. Not even Bleacher Report posits that Miz or Crunch did. InedibleHulk (talk) 16:38, 27 May 2016 (UTC)

I've attributed the claim to them (also Sherdog and Associated Press), rather than in Wikipedia's voice. This should be sufficient. InedibleHulk (talk) 16:54, 27 May 2016 (UTC)

Also claiming WWE isn't a sport is false, its shown on ESPN and is considered by many to be more of a sport than nascar, baseball, etc. Further, No one has said that the Miz broke the curse, it was mentioned on the page as a side note for people/teams from Cleveland who have won titles but didn't "break the curse" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.207.250.61 (talk) 12:42, 27 May 2016 (UTC)

to follow up on WWE being a sport.. if you just google search "sport" the definition is "an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment" which I am fairly confident the WWE covers.

There's no competition in a professional wrestling match. The loser doesn't lose for lack of skill, he's just doing a job. You might be thinking of wrestling. InedibleHulk (talk) 16:38, 27 May 2016 (UTC)

Croatian ethnicity in the lead

There's an ongoing edit conflict with some IPs over whether "Croatian-American" should be used in the lead or just "American". Here's what I said in a talk page message (edited for relevance):

Let's go through what MOS:BIO says specifically:

In most modern-day cases this will mean the country of which the person is a citizen, national or permanent resident, or if notable mainly for past events, the country where the person was a citizen, national or permanent resident when the person became notable.

Using that criteria then we should only mention America. He became notable while as an American living in America.

Ethnicity, religion, or sexuality should generally not be in the lead unless it is relevant to the subject's notability. Similarly, previous nationalities or the country of birth should not be mentioned in the lead unless they are relevant to the subject's notability.

And here too what makes him notable is only that he is a professional MMA fighter. If he was not a professional MMA fighter then he would not have an article regardless of the fact that his parents are Croatian. That he is Croatian has contributed nothing to his being notable. It might be part of what makes him popular among certain fans but that's not how Wikipedia determines notability.

His ethnicity is not relevant to what makes him notable. Please read the Wikipedia definition of [[WP:N|notability]. It's not popularity or what he talks about or what other say about him. His notability is established not by these things but that reliable sources report on the fact that his is a professional MMA fighter. I'm sure they also mention his weight and age but we don't put those in the lead either as they are not relevant to what makes him notable even though they are very relevant to who he is.

This seems like a pretty clear-cut case given that he was born in America, grew up in America, and fights professionally in America then the only thing that should be mentioned in the lead is that he is American. The infobox can have additional information as well as the biography section but the lead is generally limited as indicated above. SQGibbon (talk) 17:53, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

Early in his UFC run, it was emphasized a bit more. Sort of a callback to Cro Cop, promotionally speaking, and he wore the flag on his gear. Now that everyone's wearing Reebok, he's been more of a Cleveland fireman than a Croatian. If we're looking at the current picture, it seems undue for the lead. But if we're aiming to summarize the whole bio, I can see how it makes sense. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:13, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

If this is the case and sources can confirm it, then mentioning somewhere in the opening section that he played up his Croatian heritage which was embraced by fans and the media would be appropriate. But that's different than adding it to the lead sentence which regardless seems to be against the guidelines as he was born in America, lived in America his whole life, fights in America, became notable while in America as an American citizen and being Croatian did not do a single thing to help establish his notability at all. His fighting professionally is the only thing that established his notability. Being of Croatian heritage might have added to his popularity but popularity is not the same thing as notability in Wikipedia land. SQGibbon (talk) 21:33, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

Being Croatian(ish) might bump his popularity among Croatians, but as a whole, I don't think UFC fans were particularly pumped. Just made them note him as "that Croatian guy". As a well-rounded fighter and white-bread speaker, it was easier than noting him by his style. But yeah, leads should only touch upon what's covered in the body. Can't assume it's common knowledge. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:49, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

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Semi-protected edit request on 27 January 2018

Add Stipe Miocic's nickname "Steeply Myopic" to the article. Most fans of UFC I know call him Stipe "Steeply Myopic" Miocic. Jugnlex (talk) 00:23, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. JTP ^{(talk • contribs)} 01:22, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

Subject name

@FeRDNYC and SerVasi: good day. Understand both of you dispute with the subject name. Pls see Wikipedia WP:COMMONNAME and WP:TRANSLITERATE guidelines. SerVasi, since you are new to Wikipedia, please note that if you revert more than 3 times on the same article within the 24 hrs time frame, you will be blocked as for you have engaged in WP:edit warring / WP:3RR. Please discuss the issue here with the involved party prior changes is made. Thank you. CASSIOPEIA^(talk) 07:49, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

English grammatical error

In the lead, there's a sentence During his title reign, he successfully defended his championship four times..., which is used with simple past defended, as if Miocic's career is finished. Change it to has defended, since Miocic is still fighting. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Marcussono (talk • contribs) 12:43, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

English grammatical error

In the lead, there's a sentence During his title reign, he successfully defended his championship four times..., which is used with simple past defended, as if Miocic's career is finished. Change it to has defended, since Miocic is still fighting. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Marcussono (talk • contribs) 12:50, 16 August 2020 (UTC)