Talk:Stefan Bajcetic

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On 28 December 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved to Stefan Bajčetić. The result of the discussion was not moved.

Spanish or Serbian?

curprev 18:10, 27 August 2022‎ Polyamorph talk contribs‎ m 224 bytes 0‎ Polyamorph moved page Talk:Stefan Bajčetić to Talk:Stefan Bajcetic over redirect: Requested by Ortizesp at WP RM/TR: Undiscussed page move that goes against WP COMMONNAME, normal spelling in English and his native Spanish without diacritics. undothank Tags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit Advanced mobile edit

curprev 17:54, 27 August 2022‎ Elserbio00 talk contribs‎ m 224 bytes 0‎ Elserbio00 moved page Talk:Stefan Bajcetic to Talk:Stefan Bajčetić undothank 3 August 2022

curprev 00:35, 3 August 2022‎ Das osmnezz talk contribs‎ 224 bytes +224‎ ←Created page thank Tag: 2017 wikitext editor

@Ortizesp: he's a Spanish national? He was born in Spain so quite likely. In ictu oculi (talk) 22:18, 27 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I see that there is a name template indicating that the article's name is a Serbian one. Stefan Bajcetic is a Spanish native from his maternal side, and also a Spanish national, not a Serbian one. His name was given according to Spanish law. As such, I do not think that it is appropriate to include the Serbian family name hatnote. Gandalfett (talk) 22:15, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 28 December 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Consensus is to WP:USEENGLISH. It is also noted in the discussion that the subject himself uses the current title as his name in his social media and professional profiles. (closed by non-admin page mover) – robertsky (talk) 04:52, 11 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Stefan Bajcetic → Stefan Bajčetić – Per the article, this is his name. Not sure why it was moved to the title without the stuff on the Cs. Paul Vaurie (talk) 06:59, 27 December 2022 (UTC) This is a contested technical request (permalink). Dr. Vogel (talk) 05:34, 28 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Paul Vaurie Please open a RM discussion. The article was created at the current title, then someone moved it to what you had suggested, and it was reverted upon request as undiscussed move. – robertsky (talk) 07:12, 27 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Clearly needs an RM. I'll do it. Dr. Vogel (talk) 05:34, 28 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Paul Vaurie: all Serbian nationals are at Serbian spellings except the most famous female Serbian tennis player because her article became a trophy in the diacritics war a decade ago. But the question is this player Serbian or Spanish? He was born in Spain and is a youth international for Spain. In ictu oculi (talk) 09:04, 28 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. Giant Snowman 17:06, 28 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support as is standard to use diacritics for Serbian individuals. GiantSnowman 17:11, 28 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- He's moreso Spanish than Serbian, and they wouldn't use diacritics in his name. His full legal name is "Stefan Bajcetic Maquieira", same logic should be used here as Tiago Cukur IMO. See here for example, or English sources @GiantSnowman:
Support since this is his actual name, as seen by how his father’s name also has the diacritics. It is standard to keep the diacritics for Serbian names, and even for those that have Spanish nationality, such as Bojan Krkić. WP:COMMONNAME does not give a strong enough case in this scenario to remove the diacritics. Paul Vaurie (talk) 17:58, 28 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- Note, this is a double vote by proposer, so shouldn't count towards a final count.--Ortizesp (talk) 04:12, 29 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per WP:USEENGLISH, as the English-language sources do not use the diacritics. Rreagan007 (talk) 19:21, 28 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support given general consensus that all Serbian surnames on wiki use diacritics, as mentioned above. As well, the referenced information in the article states his eligibility to play for the Serbian national team. This information proves he holds a Serbian citizenship. Therefore, he is also a Serbian national. He holds this citizenship through right of law through his paternal figure, who also has a wiki page with the use of the same diacritics in question. Spirit Fox99 (talk) 20:39, 28 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Strongest possible oppose per USEENGLISH and COMMONNAME, English sources use his name without diacritics. Also, he is technically Spanish first before Serbian, and in Spanish those diacritics are also not used. The "correct" form with diacritics is only used in a minority of references, usually minority Serbian references. Also doesn't use diacritics in his own Instagram, his Liverpool profile, or Premier League profile.--Ortizesp (talk) 04:07, 29 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Restore Ana Ivanović first it seems to me to be very odd to be discussing whether a Spanish-Serbian should be at "Spanish" (?) or Serbian spelling when one lone bio on en.wp has been sticking out as Anglicized for no discernable reason since the first shot of the diacritics war over a decade ago. Why not fix that BLP before fixing this BLP which doesn't clearly need to be fixed. In ictu oculi (talk) 15:10, 29 December 2022 (UTC),[reply]
Oppose The sources presented above by Ortizesp, which include the subject's own verified Instagram account and official profiles from the club he plays for and the league he plays in, all spell his name without diacritics. These are all sources that you would expect to include the diacritics if they are indeed in his name, which suggests to me that Bajcetic is his actual, legal name, as well as his WP:COMMONNAME. I will be happy to reconsider if evidence is presented showing that his name is spelled with the diacritics. Mattythewhite (talk) 17:33, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per WP:UE. Most English-language sources use the current title. The diacritics are meaningless to the large majority of English speakers. Station1 (talk) 07:30, 4 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. English-language sources don't use a title with diacritics, therefore neither should we. If it were a mixed bag, then we'd defer to the diacritic version as standard, but as per Novak Djokovic and others, that isn't the case here. There is an established English name. Cheers — Amakuru (talk) 21:08, 5 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose for now. If he switches NT in the future, from Spanish to Serbian, then we should follow it with a move.--౪ Santa ౪^99° 10:24, 10 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Serbian-Spanish

Considering he holds dual citizenship, is eligible to play for both national teams, and represents himself as such, I request the description title be changed to 'Serbian-Spanish footballer'. This has been done with countless other articles following discussion. Thank you. ~~Spirit_Fox99~~ Spirit Fox99 (talk) 20:25, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per convention, since he only represents Spain internationally. For dual nats that represent the country they are born in, the standard is to only include that country.

Ortizesp (talk) 20:28, 1 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose, he was born in Spain, he grown up in Spain, and plays with Spain, hence he is Spanish. FCBWanderer (talk) 02:59, 6 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Family name hatnote

I think the Template:Family name hatnote should be added, same as every other Spanish footballer. His full last name is Bajcetic Maquieira, with Bajcetic from his father and Maquieira from his mother, following Spanish convention. Sure, his last name has Serbian roots, but that's completely irrelevant to the template, and we usually include it for Hispanic or Spanish players with last names with roots in other countries, like Alejandro Davidovich Fokina, Galia Dvorak, and countless other mixed or Basque/Catalan/etc persons. Let me know what you think.--Ortizesp (talk) 05:13, 22 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed, and I've restored it. It only seems to be one editor who is insisting on this not being included. Mattythewhite (talk) 18:10, 23 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Inclusion of Serbian name hatnote

As noted by Ortizesp, per convention, since he only represents Spain internationally, the standard is to only include that country. I don't think that he is a dual national (Spanish-Serbian), would it still be appropriate to include the Serbian name hatnote at the start of the article page? Gandalfett (talk) 08:18, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]