Talk:Statesman (automobile)

Second paragraph of the lead section

I was actually referring to the paragraph as a whole - I believe we can add a section or perhaps a half-sentence mention concerning the Holden Statesman to somehow answer the obvious question, but describing the new Holden large car lineup at length seems superfluous for me in this article. As concerns other variants not getting revived, this is absolutely redundant - Holden also didn't build a wagon or delivery van variant of the Statesman, didn't run an elephant farm or retail Christmas tree decorations, for what I can tell, and there is no mention of that. I believe stating what didn't happen really isn't very encyclopedic... PrinceGloria 09:33, 26 September 2007 (UTC) PS. The List of Statesman vehicles really does not make sense as a separate article... —Preceding unsigned comment added by PrinceGloria (talk • contribs) 09:40, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Notes & References

My attempt to add a reference to the first line of this article was well short of successful. Can soneone point me to the correct way to do this please. GTHO 11:14, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Holden Statesman, Statesman WB "Series I" versus "Series II"

I note there has been talk in other articles about "Holden Statesman" versus "Statesman" where the "Holden" nameplate was not used for HQ to WB Statesmans but used for VQ models onwards. Just to add to the confusion I note that the "Statesman" nameplate was dropped for the Series 2 WB models. Series 2 WB models were known as simply as "DeVille - Series II" and "Caprice - Series II" which has been indicated in the addendum to the "Statesman and WB Commercials" service manual produced by Holden. This is something that may need to be looked into and confirmed by the author as this publication from Holden clearly indicates that the "Statesman" name was dropped for Series II WB's which technically means they are not Statesmans at all (even though the only differencve between series I and II is the trim in the deVille, trimatic transmissions, electric mirrors, trip computer and radios. Revised badging on the caprice "Caprice by Holden" suggest that these vehicles are probably better identified as the Holden Caprice and the Holden Deville —Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.91.9.167 (talk) 00:43, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

GMH couldn't really have made it any harder for us could they? I have copies of the front covers of two Series II brochures: one reads "Series II Statesman De Ville" and the other reads "Series II Statesman Caprice". So it seems that the technical people at GMH were on a different planet to the marketing people over this. Maybe we should seek the help of a Statesman owners club, if there is such a thing. Cheers GTHO 10:17, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Statesman was not a brand!

Hi, I wondered that only in Wikipedia and in the one referenced article from "Modern Motor" the Statesman was described as "own brand name". On Holdens History Website there was nothing about a own brand... So I asked Holden directly and got after few weeks the following letter back. So IMO this article should be merged with Holden or Holden Statesmen. Greetings from Germany --WikiNight (from German Wikipedia) 80.135.91.214 (talk) 20:37, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Subject: Customer service enquiry (Case# 1-74415792)

From: Holden CAC <custasst.holden (at) gm.com>

Dear xxx ((WikiNight)),

Thank you for your enquiry regarding the history of the Statesman.

We take this opportunity to advise that the Statesman is a nameplate of the Holden brand - not a brand on its own such as Lexus or Saab, for example.

For your information, we have attached a brief history of the Statesman and Caprice nameplates, taken from the 60th Anniversary edition of the Holden Heritage Book, published 2008.

Should you need to contact the Holden Customer Assistance Centre, please refer to the case reference number mentioned above.

Yours sincerely,

xxx

State Business Representative

This article and the Modern Motor magazine are not alone in this. User:GTHO provided his case here (please read), and I have come across other references since then. Since 1990, the Statesman has been a nameplate of Holden, but from 1971 to 1984, this was not the case. Precisely, what was your initial email to Holden? Maybe they saw it as the more recent models, but I am prepared to look further into this. OSX (talk • contributions) 01:36, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

I asked especially the history, referencing this article. Feel free to ask again. The discussion you linked above only shows that "Holden" was not mentioned, but is this a prove of an own brand? What about all the Toyota Corollas. They do not have any "Toyota" on the car, and there exists "Corolla Distributors" [1]. Is Corolla a brand? I don't think so. --WikiNight (from German Wikipedia) 80.135.94.224 (talk) 21:17, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

These cars were Holdens in the sense that they were made by Holden. The difference was that they were not marketed as Holdens. Every other Holden model line has mentioned "Holden" in advertising, brochures, etc. This car does not. I do not think you properly understand the list compiled by GTHO, as he has made his point quite clear, and other sources I have since come across only support this. Let me reproduce two of the better examples:

• The Green Book Price Guide for Sep-Oct 1984 lists Torana, Kingswood, Monaro etc under HOLDEN but lists Custom, de Ville, Caprice and SL/E under STATESMAN.
• The July 1971 SA car registrations table on Page 30 of the November 1971 issue of South Australian Motor magazine, shows the following:
  • ......Chevrolet - 1, ......Holden - 1327, ......Statesman - 25….. No separate figures are given for Torana, Kingswood, Monaro etc

Badging, brochures, user manuals all support this. You've found an example regarding the Corolla, but that is one example of a car were no ambiguity exists (on the Toyota website too). OSX (talk • contributions) 02:58, 18 April 2009 (UTC)