Talk:Stagecoach

old

Stagecoach is also the name of a band in the UK consisiting of LUKE BARHAM -Voice, guitar, shaker NICK TANNER -Steel & electric guitar MATT EMERY -Drums, percussion & backing vocals TOM LEWIS -Mandolin, Banjo JOHN HARRINGTON -Bass.

deleted from the article 2007-02-15[1] -P64

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.56.50.138 (talk) 23:42, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Concord

The section about the Concord coach is almost word for word from this site: http://www.linecamp.com/museums/americanwest/western_clubs/abbott_downing_company/abbott_downing_company.html

N8lewis 00:09, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Usage

The article seems to have omitted the basic principle of a stage coach - the journey was carried out in stages, the horses being replaced with new (rested) ones at the Inns that the coaches stopped at. This was one of the reasons why in England an inn (as opposed to a public house) was required by law to provide fodder and stabling for horses, as well as offer overnight accommodation for any passengers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.112.68.219 (talk) 09:32, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Stagecoaches in Britain

As well as needing a citation for the earliest use of this type of conveyance (already noted on the section), I think more is needed about the latest use. I find it extremely hard to believe that there were such vehicles still in regular use at the beginning of the 20th century, as stated. As in Continental Europe, and possibly unlike the situation in North America, the establishment and expansion of the railway network surely put paid to stagecoaches much earlier than that. AgTigress (talk) 15:22, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

Travel Times

We are given one example of an exceptionally fast trip between Bristol and London, but usually travel times were much slower. A list giving the duration of travel between major centres might be useful. Journey times became shorter after the introduction of new road-building techniques (macadamization) so the dating of such a list would also be important. Everybody got to be somewhere! (talk) 14:35, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Is there any way that there could be more examples of what it would be like to travel by stagecoach? 2603:6011:16F0:5D80:506C:67E4:9EED:7147 (talk) 14:47, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

There is much work that could be done to straighten out the various and diverse Wikipedia articles on the subject of coaching days. In the meantime, you might check out Stage station and Coaching inn.   ▶ I am Grorp ◀ 16:32, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

beyond Europe

Diligences were used in Russia up to the end of the Romanovs. I am translating the Mendel Beilis transcript and at the very start, it records that an important witness left Kiev for Zhitomir, 140 kms away, in a diligence on 24 September 1913, the day before the trial opened. 71.163.114.49 (talk) 13:39, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

Who owned the horses?

I have always wanted to know who owned the horses that were kept at each 'stage' of a stage-coach's journey. Obviously the owner(s) of the stage-coach 'line' - or not? But how were the horses fed, and cared for? Was this entrusted to the inn-keeper and his stable-men? Were they paid for this? What about the feed bill? How many horses were kept at each inn/stage? Sufficient to replace a lame or ill beast? 121.44.23.76 (talk) 22:43, 31 May 2016 (UTC)

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Origin

An editor changed the claim of the first stagecoach to being in Britain when the reference was to Scotland. Where does the editor believe they originated? Qwirkle? Eddaido (talk) 08:11, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

No, several times over. First, the article was making the outlandish claim that the first stagecoach run -ever- occurred in a particular year. Next, the source describes stages spreading throughout “the island”. Scotland is not an Island; Britain is.

That aside, depending on how broadly we use the term “Stagecoach”, and for that matter “coach”, when is “first” could shift by millennia, and where was first by continents.Qwirkle (talk) 15:01, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

In the edit comments you refer as follows "Other sources, even in the article, differ." Please would you amend the article in the light of your new knowledge and add all the appropriate information and be careful with your citations - no triangulations. Eddaido (talk) 22:13, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

There are several points raised above which you still have not addressed, @Eddaido:, why not take them in order? You have repeatedly used a source which explicitly addresses the timeline of stagecoach adoption in Britain as though it were worldwide, which source itself references the contemporaneous Hungarian post coaches. Qwirkle (talk) 22:37, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

Factual accuracy. Was a Hungarian post coach a stagecoach? Why is it called a post coach and not a stagecoach? What is the first recorded date of these Hungarian post coaches? Eddaido (talk) 01:05, 3 April 2019 (UTC)

As any number of sources will tell you, Hungarian coaches are the Ur-coach. And, as wider coverage of the Edinburgh-Leith first-in-Britain operation will mention, it was brought over in toto from Stralsund, coaches, horses, and men, by a fellow named Henry Anderson, if memory serves. It was the import of a continental idea, in other words. Qwirkle (talk) 01:13, 3 April 2019 (UTC)

• 3rd opinion, free of charge. The reference used in the article specifically says it was the first in Britain. If Eddaido believes otherwise, it is their responsibility to find a source that says so. It doesn't make sense to demand Qwirkle provide a source when the source already there explicitly supports his position already. Everybody should stop edit warring, though. --Floquenbeam (talk) 21:16, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
  • ..and yet, rather predictably, the sourced version has been reverted. Qwirkle (talk) 22:34, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
    • If they don't self-revert, I'll ask at the ANI thread for an edit warring block. --Floquenbeam (talk) 22:39, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
      • Actually, I'm not going to spend the time making an ANEW report when they've technically only reverted 3 times. Clear edit warring, but an admin might say it isn't a 3RR violation. I'm instead reverting to the sourced version myself. If *that*'s reverted, then an ANEW report might be worth the time and effort. --Floquenbeam (talk) 23:04, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

accuracy disputed?

The article has a "disputed" template tag ("This article's factual accuracy is disputed. ..."). The article looks fairly well-cited to me, and that tag has been there since April 2019 (i.e., a long time), and there is no recent discussion of any "dispute" on this talk page. Can anyone give me a good reason to not remove the tag? The tag does not indicate *what part* of the article is disputed, and neither does this talk page (though I would guess it was added in relation to this "Origin" business above), so it does not seem very helpful. Thanks! Doctormatt (talk) 04:46, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

You point looks sensible to me. Time to remove it then. It does nothing for the authority of Wikipedia as a source of information when its editors put notices in the face of the articles saying it isn't reliable. Imagine the editors of Encyclopedia Britannica doing that in the days of printed books. Afterbrunel (talk) 15:34, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

Great. Thanks for making the change. Cheers! Doctormatt (talk) 21:31, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

Public transport by stages in 20th c. Britain

I'm wondering where history of how passengers paid for a bus or tram ride in mid-20th century England should have documentation in a Wikipedia article. I recall that in Liverpool, between 1956 and 1975, you paid a fare according to how many stages the bus would pass while you were on it. Some bus stops had a sign that said "Fare stage". Go past that sign, and you add a stage to the number of stages through which you've already travelled. This section Fare#Zone-based_fare of the article on fare is comparable, but makes no mention of stages, and in any case is not an exact match.

In 1956, typically, the adult fare was 3d for the first stage, whether you got on at the beginning of the stage or at the next-to-last stop. For two or three stages, the fare was 6d. After that, you could go several stages before the next fare increment, to 9d. Fares could range as high as 1s 6d.

If you traveled beyond where you'd paid for, you could have to face the consequences. I recall two boys getting on and attempting to pay the minumum amount. The driver told them that such a fare would get them only as far as the next stop, which was a fare stage. This, of course, was a trick that the boys were trying to play - and didn't get away with! They might have decided not to get on the bus and to try again with a more gullible (or sympathetic) driver.

Revenue protection inspectors, known as ticket inspectors or simply inspectors, patrolled the routes. Their familiar call, "All tickets please" was often heard. In addition to checking that passengers had paid, they also checked for conductor fraud, insuring that the takings matched the number of tickets issued.

However, I don't see the information that this system was based on a geographical distances that is called a stage.

So, if information like this is not documented in another article, perhaps a (less personalized) version can be included in this one.2603:6010:4E42:500:D8A2:2925:629C:C58B (talk) 21:40, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

This article is about a type of coach that usually carried passengers long distance, often for days, not about urban transport for short-jaunt rides within a city. That's not what "coaching" and "stages" were about. This question would be more appropriate for the Horsebus article.   ▶ I am Grorp ◀ 16:28, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Legal definition

In central London we are plagued by 'rickshaws' - man powered tricycles with a bench seat on the back, hanging around on street corners in groups and picking up tourists and taking them wherever they want to go. The charging system is not regulated. Not surprisingly the Licensed Black Cab Association, which requires 5 years study of 'The Knowledge' and whose fares are regulated, was not pleased. About 10 years ago they brought a legal challenge.

The result was rather surprising, the rickshaws were declared to be 'stagecoaches', and therefore completely legal. Unfortunately I can't find any explanation of the judgement.

I think a section on the legal definition in Britain could helpfully be added. Wolstan Dixie (talk) 19:43, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

Interesting. I did some checking around and came across many articles on the problems of these cycle rickshaws/pedicabs, including this and this. However, it wasn't until I found this one where I found the term "stage carriage". More digging... found that case law had shoehorned pedicabs under Section 4 of the Metropolitan Public Carriage Act 1869 which covers "stage carriages" and allowed the pedicabs to operate unregulated. The new laws (2024) would bring pedicabs under the jurisdiction of Transport for London and regulate them like taxis instead—requiring licensing, safety checks on equipment, and set fares. Having said all that, a "stage carriage" is not the same thing as a "stagecoach", and whatever legal person thought 21st century pedicabs had anything to do with a mid-1800s style of transport is beyond me. See also Stage station, Coaching inn, and Pedicabs (London) Act 2024.   ▶ I am Grorp ◀ 16:28, 30 September 2024 (UTC)