Talk:St John's Church, Hartford

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Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: move to St John's Church, Hartford Graeme Bartlett (talk) 12:16, 15 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

{{movereq|St John the Baptist Church, Hartford}}

St John the Baptist's Church, Hartford → St John the Baptist Church, Hartford — Current title grammatically incorrect, the church does not belong to St John the Baptist. Icbarton (talk) 18:15, 7 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.

Oppose for the reasons given in the Discussion section. I would accept St John's Church, Hartford, but not the proposed move. Peter I. Vardy (talk) 21:49, 7 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose: The church appears to refer to itself (per its website) as St John's Church, Hartford. – ukexpat (talk) 16:27, 8 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose and support move to St John's Church, Hartford or possibly St John's Church, Hartford, Cheshire. I see no source that this is dedicated to John the Baptist as opposed to St. John the Evangelist. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 19:28, 8 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The Chester Diocese webpage here and Pevsner and Hubbard both refer to it as being dedicated to St John the Baptist. Peter I. Vardy (talk) 20:04, 8 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks; I still support a move to St. John's. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 20:40, 8 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Support move to St John's Church, Hartford, like just about everyone else here. The proposer's original proposal has been convincingly discredited. Ucucha 12:40, 12 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Any additional comments:

The possessive is the normal convention for naming churches, ie. "St Somebody's Church". This does not mean it belongs to the saint, but rather that it is dedicated to the saint. So in this case the title is correct. However the church calls itself "St John's Church" (no baptist). Therefore the title should either stay unchanged, or if it is moved it should be to to St John's Church, Hartford (this is already covered by a redirect). St John the Baptist Church, Hartford is incorrect and against the convention for naming churches. Peter I. Vardy (talk) 21:49, 7 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- The proper test in all such matters is usage. What does the church call itself on its own website? What do reliable sources (like the local newspaper) call it? Septentrionalis PMAnderson 04:41, 8 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- The church website uses "St John's Church Hartford" (see http://www.stjohnshartford.org/). The Diocese website uses "St John the Baptist" (see http://www.chester.anglican.org/churches.asp). As I live pretty close, I will have a look at the signs outside the church next time I am passing - and take my camera if I remember! Pixie2000 (talk) 11:07, 9 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  - The recently replaced church notice board has a main title of "Hartford Parish Church", with "St John the Baptist" in very small print on the left. The Church of England directory of churches refers to St John's as "St John's Parish Church" (see http://www.achurchnearyou.com/hartford-st-john-the-baptist/). Having read the discussion, I am persuaded in favour of St John's Church, Hartford, which matches common use locally. Icbarton (talk) 11:44, 12 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  - I confirm the church notice board refers to it as "Hartford Parish Church" with "St John the Baptist" in small print to the side. I tried to take a picture but it was too dark! Pixie2000 (talk) 21:22, 13 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.