Talk:St Ceinwen's Church, Cerrigceinwen

St Ceinwen's Church, Cerrigceinwen has been listed as one of the Art and architecture good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
July 9, 2012	Good article nominee	Listed

A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on July 13, 2012.

The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that the grounds of St Ceinwen's Church, Cerrigceinwen, Wales, contain a spring once said to be able to "cure many diseases"?

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GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:St Ceinwen's Church, Cerrigceinwen/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Canadian Paul (talk · contribs) 13:34, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'll take this one on, hopefully later today. Judging from the last one of yours I reviewed, however, I don't anticipate having much to say! Canadian Paul 13:34, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

It is reasonably well written.
a (prose): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
It is factually accurate and verifiable.
a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
It is broad in its coverage.
a (major aspects): b (focused):
It follows the neutral point of view policy.
Fair representation without bias:
It is stable.
No edit wars, etc.:
It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall:
Pass/Fail:

Two small comments before I pass the article:

In the lead, first paragraph, "The church grounds contain a well, once thought to have healing properties, and named after St Ceinwen, the patron saint of the church." Aside from the fact that there's obviously a word missing here, this sentence makes it sound like the well was named after the Saint.
Under the second paragraph of "Assessment", "Writing in 1846, after some rebuilding, Longueville Jones said..." Who is Longueville Jones and why I should care about his opinion? You qualify Angharad Llwyd as an "antiquarian", but give no mention of Jones' profession/significance.

I also performed a few (arguably subjective) edits for flow. Although the following issues are not part of the GA criteria, since you asked for extra commentary on the last one, here are some extra things to consider. One thing I would point out is that the article is inconsistent with its use of spaces following the period, vacillating between using one or two. Either style is acceptable, but it should be consistent throughout. I also tend to find one-to-two sentence paragraphs to be choppy and distracting to the flow, so if those could be expanded or combined, it might help the readability of the article. Finally, I want to know more about the church (what notable events occurred there, what levels of service/attendance there were, maybe even little details like what is the bell made out of etc.), but obviously I can't ask you to provide material that isn't available.

So I'm going to go ahead and place the article on hold for a period of up to seven days so that these concerns can be addressed. I'm always open to discussion so if you think I'm wrong on something leave your thoughts here and we'll discuss. I'll be checking this page at least daily, unless something comes up, so you can be sure I'll notice any comments left here. Canadian Paul 15:51, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the review and the edits. The well is named after the saint - St Ceinwen's Well (I've added a 2009 source to confirm this), and reworded the sentence generally anyway. Longueville Jones was mentioned earlier: "according to the 19th-century clergyman and antiquarian Harry Longueville Jones, it was 'once much resorted to as a spring that could cure many diseases'", so I don't think I need to repeat the full name or qualifications. If I find more information worth adding about this church, I will gladly add it (I have looked in the usual places and found nothing in particular). The reality is that for most of the smaller Anglesey churches I'm covering in User:Bencherlite/Operation Anglesey there is precious little information about anything other than the architecture and some of the contents. Few of the open churches have websites, none publish attendance levels. As for past levels of attendance at St C's, my knowledge based on an unpublished and unusable source is that the congregation simply dwindled away until it became completely unviable. Anglesey is full of old churches dating from an era before non-conformism and the growth of chapel attendance. Now chapel and church attendance are both in decline and many chapels are closed; increasingly, churches are closing too. Bencherlite ^Talk

Yeah, I was pretty tired when I read this one the first time, I can't believe I missed that I was mistaken on both counts, sorry. I'm taking a day or two off GA reviewing, hopefully that will help, haha. Anyways, I do think that the lead reads a little better now and I believe that this article meets the Good Article criteria and will be passing it as such. Congratulations and thank you for all your hard work! Canadian Paul 14:08, 9 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Untitled

The Naming of Things "(in Welsh, Cain means "fair" or "beautiful", and Ceinwen means "Blessed Cain")" Well, not quite. The -wen element (from "gwyn", believe it or not) means white/fair/beautiful, and I remember Bendigaid Vran being translated Blessed Bran. No idea what happened with the source here. Ceinwen might be better translated something like "pretty pretty". Is there a Cymro in the house to set it right? My Welsh is pretty weak.(http://www.behindthename.com/name/ceinwen) Sorry to pick at rather than edit the article, or whatever I ought to have done instead of picking; I'm very wet behind the ears here and have barely figured out how to write on the talk page. Hope to do better soon.Cecile Bruner (talk) 18:43, 13 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]