Talk:Southern Italy autonomist movements

Title

Good article, but I'm not sure that Two Silicies autonomy and independence movements is a good title for at least two reasons: 1) most of the groups listed are not movements but parties; 2) most of the parties listed, notably the Movement for Autonomies and Sicilian Alliance, never speak of autonomy for the "Two Sicilies" (they mainly support the autonomy of Sicily) and "Two Sicilies" is not used at all in present times (also the Southern autonomists prefer "South" or "Mezzogiorno"). That's why I propose to change the title of the article created by Aymatth2 because it is currently incorrect and unencyclopedic. --Checco (talk) 06:06, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

• Agreed. Two Silicies autonomy and independence movements is a mouthful and "Two Sicilies" is an anachronism. I want to expand the article to show better the progression from armed rebellion just after unification, to grudging acceptance, an attempt at independence during WWII, pragmatic views prevailing, now mostly nostalgia groups and normal lobbying for greater autonomy. Something like that. Can't think of a good title. Probably Southern Italian ... rather than Mezzogiorno ... because this is the English Wikipedia. There has to be some concise word, not assimilation. My brain is dead... what words would people use if they were searching for an article like this? Aymatth2 (talk) 14:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

You had the point: "Two Sicilies" is an anachronism used only by minor groups I personally don't know anything about, while more mainstream regionalist parties use Mezzogiorno (Southern Italy in Italian) or the names of the Southern region where they are based. Maybe we should have an article about Sicilian autonomism and one, more general, about Southern Italian autonomist movements...

You may find interesting and useful to see the it.Wiki article about what is called Meridionalismo in Italian (it:Meridionalismo) and the article about Sicilian indipendentism (it:Indipendentismo siciliano). These are the "sister-articles" of the present one. --Checco (talk) 15:45, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

• The Associazione culturale Neoborbonica and Associazione Culturale Due Sicilie use the term "Two Sicilies", but I suspect they are not much more than websites. "Southern Italy" or "Sicily" is better. For now, I would prefer to stay with one article covering both the island and the mainland, see how it evolves and perhaps later split it into two: a general one that gives an overview of resistance against absorption into Italy, and one focused on more recent events in Sicily. The it.Wiki articles you pointed out are interesting, but far from complete. Still struggling to find a good name for the article. I think the English word "movement" is less precise than "Movimento", but probably does not belong in the title. Maybe "Southern Italy autonomy debate"? Aymatth2 (talk) 18:06, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

I would prefer something with "movement" such as Southern Italy autonomist movements, but anyway I think it is very important to distinguish meridionalismo (people like Gaetano Salvemini, Luigi Sturzo, etc.) from the Sicilian independence movement. Moreover the article is too centred on the current parties and groups, and, as you said, the two associations you mentioned above are little more than websites. The title I proposed at least is OK with both and let other users have a say! --Checco (talk) 18:41, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

• Done - a better title. I fully agree: Sicily at least should have a separate article, and this one is too centered on current parties. Still, I think there is value in an article like this that gives an overview, and may keep adding to it for a while. It will be easy to split out more specialized articles. I am amazed that the subject is not well-covered already! Aymatth2 (talk) 19:43, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

I saw and appreciated your work. Unfortunately I'm not very sufficiently qualified to work on this subject too, as I know very few things about Southern Italy and its history. When I have time I will read the whole article and in case I will make some changes. Do you think we can put it:Meridionalismo as interwiki link? --Checco (talk) 11:51, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

• There is definitely material in it:Meridionalismo that can be used here, but to me it is a sort of index and not the equivalent / mirror to this article. There is useful material in the biographical pages it points to. I will add it as a "See Also". Perhaps I will do some more on the article after all - it is a fascinating subject. But I am handicapped by having to treat Italian as oddly-spelled Spanish, a language I do understand. It doesn't always work. Aymatth2 (talk) 12:47, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Maybe you can ask to some editors who work of pages such as Sicily or from it.Wiki. Anyway we need an article (this or another article) speaking of meridionalismo and the history of the South since 1946. A good question could be: why has the South become a strong supporter of Italian unity, after having suffered from it so much? This is probably the result of what is called assistenzialismo (meaning "abuse of the welfare state", according to wordreference), but I'm not qualified to answer to this question... --Checco (talk) 13:28, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Movimento neoborbonico, Associazione Due Sicilie, Movimento di insorgenza civile (also known simply as Insorgenza) and Comitati delle Due Sicilie (a new group founded about two years ago, www.comitatiduesicilie.org) support the independence of Two Sicilies, not simply south of Italy (it's a different concept; actually they feel in the national identity of Two Sicilies), and they're much more than websites. Also they're indipendentis, not autonomist. Partito del Sud is mostly autonomist. Lega Sud is also mostly indipendentist. --84.222.233.152 (talk) 00:37, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

What parties?

We should probably highlight more some of the parties listed in the "see also" section than relatively important small groups such as the "Neo-Bourbon Cultural Association", the "Two Sicilies Cultural Association" and "Land and Liberation"... If I have time I will help with this.

Request for Aymatth2: are you able to write something about the historical background of Venetism as you did in this article with the South? Your sources are probably useful also in that case... --Checco (talk) 07:25, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

MIS and FNS are NOT autonomist movements!!!

Look these: [1] and [2]. They are independentists movements: the separatism or independentism is another thing than autonomism, and the ideology of these movements or parties is sicilian separatism NOT meridionalismo--79.32.175.101 (talk) 18:13, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Backwardness of Bourbon dinasty

Two Sicilies was a very advanced state for the time, Naples was one of the first cities in europe to have public illumination, and the state provided a lot of services and money for indigent people, much like modern Scandinavia and Germany. Nowadays Italy provides 0 euros for people without money income and that said I said all.Wwhat is written here is just lies. I cancel that part — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aufels (talk • contribs) 23:46, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

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