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RfC: Ballard and Jordan Peterson discussing the film

Should this paragraph, and sources, be included in the article?

In an interview with Jordan Peterson in July 2023, Ballard claimed to have recently raided a West African "baby factory" where children are sold for organ harvesting and "Satanic ritual abuse", echoing another QAnon myth.[1][2] In July of 2020, in a video post, he lent credence to a QAnon conspiracy theory that falsely accused furniture company Wayfair of laundering money gained from child sex trafficking.[3][4] He told The New York Times "Some of these theories have allowed people to open their eyes, so now it’s our job to flood the space with real information so the facts can be shared." [5][6]

Yes or no? Fred Zepelin (talk) 20:03, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Discussion

  • Yes The interview happened just after the film's release, it deals with the film and QAnon conspiracy theories, and there are multiple reliable sources in this paragraph that all detail Ballard's involvement with the film and the connections with QAnon that Ballard and the film have. The amount of coverage blows way past WP:DUE. Fred Zepelin (talk) 20:05, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
"and there are multiple reliable sources in this paragraph that all detail Ballard's involvement with the film" like what? The only thing i saw was his wish that Jim Caviezel portrayed him --FMSky (talk) 22:09, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
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(Nota bene Blocked sockpuppet)*Yes but I suggest the wording should be amended and improved. At least by making it clear "In an interview with Jordan Peterson in July 2023 promoting the film" since the interview was a scheduled appearance to promote the movie. [1] Caviezel was also in the interview and there is more reporting available on what both said supporting conspiracy theories.Saikyoryu (talk) 21:41, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

  • No. The link to the film is not made. I dont think you even understand the issue. Its completely irrelevant what Tim Ballard himself thinks or what he has said in the past. He doesnt have anything to do with this movie, didnt write it, didnt produce it, doesnt star in it. He just happens to be the main character portrayed by an actor --FMSky (talk) 21:58, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
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Are you denying that Ballard and Caviezel are making these statements at events where their role is to promote the film? Saikyoryu (talk) 22:46, 20 July 2023 (UTC)strike sock –dlthewave ☎ 16:52, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
Which statement exactly did he made that confirms that the film has ties to the QAnon conspiracy theory? --FMSky (talk) 22:50, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
He is spreading QAnon-linked conspiracy theories in appearances where he is booked to promote the movie. What about that statement is unclear? I provided you sources for this on your own talk page so you sound like sealioning asking this here as if I hadn't. Saikyoryu (talk) 23:12, 20 July 2023 (UTC)strike sock –dlthewave ☎ 16:52, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
"He doesnt have anything to do with this movie" and "He just happens to be the main character portrayed by an actor" do not follow the facts.
Ballard was involved in the writing of the script after a producer on the movie steered Monteverde to interview him. [2]
"The real-life Tim Ballard insisted on Caviezel portraying him" [3]
Ballard and Caviezel are both heavily involved in the promotional appearance tour for the movie, including showing up together along with the producer for an event this week along with the various media appearances both have been doing before the movie launched and especially the past few weeks. "At the Wednesday screening, Trump was set to be joined by Ballard, Caviezel and the movie's producer Eduardo Verástegui, who previously served on Trump's Advisory Commission on Hispanic Prosperity."[4]
To claim that Ballard "doesn't have anything to do with this movie" when he is in constant appearances to promote it is just not correct. Saikyoryu (talk) 23:03, 20 July 2023 (UTC)strike sock –dlthewave ☎ 16:52, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
Yeah then that might be a possibility to include, but the paragraph that Fred Zepelin suggested definitely isnt the way to go. Bringing up a random interview from 2020 doesnt make any sense --FMSky (talk) 23:14, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
"Bringing up a random interview from 2020" I provided you the quote from The Atlantic on your talk page so again you sound like sealioning here.
Here it is again. The context is Ballard and Caviezel were working together on promoting the film in 2020.
Rather than dispel the Wayfair rumor, Ballard flirted with it. In July 2020, he posted an Instagram video in which he spoke directly to the camera while an American flag rippled behind his right shoulder. “Children are sold that way,” he said. “For 17 years, I’ve worked as an undercover operator online. No question about it, children are sold on social-media platforms, on websites, and so forth.” The video has been viewed more than 2.7 million times.
This August, a spokesperson for Operation Underground Railroad wrote in an email: “O.U.R. does not condone conspiracy theories and is not affiliated with any conspiracy theory groups, like QAnon, in any way, shape, or form.” Yet Ballard himself seems at home in this milieu. A forthcoming Ballard biopic, Sound of Freedom, will star Jim Caviezel, the actor who played Jesus in The Passion of the Christ. In the spring, Caviezel appeared at a “health and freedom” conference alongside various right-wing figures—including L. Lin Wood, a lawyer and key architect of the 2020 election-fraud conspiracy theories, and Mike Lindell, the MyPillow founder and a major Trump donor, who famously tried to pitch the former president on a COVID-19 miracle cure made from a highly poisonous shrub. Video of Caviezel’s speech was shared by OUR supporters on YouTube and Facebook. In it, Caviezel told the audience that Ballard had planned to come with him for the interview but was unable to attend, because he was “pulling kids out of the darkest recesses of hell right now.” He then explained how adrenaline can be harvested from children’s bodies as they scream and die." Saikyoryu (talk) 23:24, 20 July 2023 (UTC)strike sock –dlthewave ☎ 16:52, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
Where is this is the OP's suggestion??— Preceding unsigned comment added by an unknown user
It is literally the source labeled #4 in the text of the suggestion. Saikyoryu (talk) 23:45, 20 July 2023 (UTC)strike sock –dlthewave ☎ 16:52, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
  • No — I have an issue with the reliability of the source (Insider), and the implication the author makes that West African "baby factories" are a myth "pushed by the QAnon movement", which then provides a hyperlink to an article in The Atlantic that doesn't even mention West Africa or baby factories. And this passage, seen here in this version of the article — In July of 2020, in a video post, he lent credence to a QAnon conspiracy theory that falsely accused furniture company Wayfair of laundering money gained from child sex trafficking. — Sources used to support that passage; The Arizona Central source explicitly states that "Ballard did not confirm or deny the veracity of the theory specifically", and The Atlantic source says "Ballard flirted with it", which does not equate to "lent credence" (assent to the truth of something}, that's clearly a misrepresentation of the sources. We have multiple sources that state the film itself (topic of this article) does not mention any Qanon conspiracy crap and we shouldn't be using this article for a soapbox to list every item uttered by Ballard or Caviezel in relation to Qanon. Isaidnoway (talk) 01:52, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
    Agree. 120.29.97.157 (talk) 00:10, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
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Please re-read and take time to pay attention to avoid looking like sealioning please. The text regarding "baby factories" links to Link #1, https://www.insider.com/sound-of-freedom-tim-ballard-qanon-medicare-fraud-2023-7, which states "But in another interview this month, with alt-right figure Jordan Peterson, Ballard said that he had just raided a West African "baby factory" where children are sold for organ harvesting and "Satanic ritual abuse," echoing myths that have been pushed by the QAnon movement." The rest of what you said is similarly lacking in factual relation to the sources' content. [5]
"we shouldn't be using this article for a soapbox to list every item uttered by Ballard or Caviezel in relation to Qanon." I do not see where it is "every item uttered by Ballard or Caviezel" but there are many that they have done in the context of their professional appearances to promote the film which is a direct connection to the film.Saikyoryu (talk) 02:02, 21 July 2023 (UTC)strike sock –dlthewave ☎ 16:52, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
"I have an issue with the reliability of the source (Insider)" - "There is consensus that Insider is generally reliable for its coverage in its culture section. Saikyoryu (talk) 02:09, 21 July 2023 (UTC)strike sock –dlthewave ☎ 16:52, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
Like I said, there is a hyperlink underlining the word "myth" which is used to back up and support the assertion the author is making, and The Atlantic article she hyperlinked to does not mention West Africa or baby factories. So she has no source for her claim that Ballard is echoing myths that have been pushed by the QAnon movement. And by the way, baby factories in West Africa are not a myth. Furthermore, this Insider article is not listed as "culture", which can clearly be seen at the top of the article where it is categorized as "crime", which makes it vulnerable to the reliability of the allegations the author is making. Isaidnoway (talk) 04:03, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
I can't tell if you're serious or just being deliberately wrong and sealioning. Are you seriously trying to claim that the "adrenochroming" and "satanic ritual abuse" crap aren't complete myths pushed by the QAnon movement? Saikyoryu (talk) 12:45, 21 July 2023 (UTC)strike sock –dlthewave ☎ 16:52, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
This is the content I am discussing - In an interview with Jordan Peterson in July 2023, Ballard claimed to have recently raided a West African "baby factory" where children are sold for organ harvesting and "Satanic ritual abuse", echoing another QAnon myth. The Insider source is not reliable for that passage, as I have explained twice now. Her allegations are unfounded. She is claiming that Ballard + West Africa + baby factories + organ harvesting + ritual abuse = myth. There is no factual basis for that allegation. I never mentioned "adrenochroming" one time, so please don't invent things out of thin air. Isaidnoway (talk) 17:42, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
You are deliberately misreading the passage and failing to correctly understand the Peterson interview context and contents, as confirmed by other reliable sources. Nothing is being "invented."
But Ballard recently told right-wing podcadster Jordan Peterson that claimed adrenochrome harvesting is real. NPR [6]
Psychologist and conservative commentator Jordan Peterson interviewed both Ballard and Caviezel on his YouTube channel, in which he asked about their belief in QAnon conspiracy theories. Ballard said they have “condemned the majority of what they see with conspiracy theories,” though he reaffirmed his belief in the adrenochrome blood harvesting theory. Forbes [7]
Conservative professor and podcast host Jordan Peterson interviewed Caviezel and the film’s real-life inspiration, former government agent Tim Ballard, in a lengthy discussion where Ballard said he condemns most of what he sees with conspiracy theories, but claimed children in Africa suffer from “adrenochrome” harvesting—referencing a conspiracy theory that baselessly claims the blood of children is forcibly taken to develop a chemical that is consumed to stay young. Forbes [8]
In an interview with right-wing commentator Jordan Peterson, Ballard also affirmed his belief in the adrenochrome blood harvesting theory saying he had seen it himself when in parts of Africa Indy100 [9]Saikyoryu (talk) 18:05, 21 July 2023 (UTC)strike sock –dlthewave ☎ 16:52, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
And you are deliberately ignoring what I am talking about - The Insider article which is used as a reference (see below, reference number one). That specific reference is under discussion here in this RfC (see above: Should this paragraph, and sources, be included in the article? In an interview with Jordan Peterson in July 2023, Ballard claimed to have recently raided a West African "baby factory" where children are sold for organ harvesting and "Satanic ritual abuse", echoing another QAnon myth.[1]← Do you see it? Reference number one - that is the only source I am discussing, please tell me what you don't understand about that? This is what the author of the Insider article says, direct quote: "But in another interview this month, with alt-right figure Jordan Peterson, Ballard said that he had just raided a West African "baby factory" where children are sold for organ harvesting and "Satanic ritual abuse," echoing myths that have been pushed by the QAnon movement". She is stating that West African baby factories (she specifically mentions West Africa and baby factories) and children being sold for organ harvesting from West Africa and ritual abuse from West Africa is a Qanon conspiracy theory - it is not a conspiracy theory that children in West Africa are being sold for organ harvesting and ritual abuse in West Africa baby factories. She is factually wrong to allege that baby factories in West Africa are a Qanon conspiracy theory. From Qanon: The core QAnon conspiracy theory is that a cabal of Satanic, cannibalistic child molesters are operating a global child sex trafficking ring which conspired against former U.S. President Donald Trump during his term in office. Nowhere in that article does it mention West African baby factories. At 05:45 in the YouTube video is where Ballard is talking about baby factories in West Africa and these sources track with what Ballard is saying about West Africa baby factories. Isaidnoway (talk) 20:35, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
"She is stating that West African baby factories (she specifically mentions West Africa and baby factories) and children being sold for organ harvesting and ritual abuse is a Qanon conspiracy theory"
No, she's not "stating that West African baby factories is a Qanon conspiracy theory." She is as shown by all the other sources referring to the "organ" harvesting" and "ritual abuse" conspiracy theory crap. Stop being deliberately sealioning. Saikyoryu (talk) 20:54, 21 July 2023 (UTC)strike sock –dlthewave ☎ 16:52, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
She most certainly is, she specifically mentions West Africa and baby factories in that paragraph, which is exactly what Ballard said, and she specifically references that part of the interview, so she most certainly is alleging that "West African baby factories is a Qanon conspiracy theory". She did not separate or distance her thoughts about "organ harvesting" and "ritual abuse" from the interview about West African baby factories. Isaidnoway (talk) 21:04, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
Holy fucking fuck I am AUTISTIC and even I'm not as fucking dense as you are pretending to be with your fucking sealioning. Saikyoryu (talk) 21:03, 21 July 2023 (UTC)strike sock –dlthewave ☎ 16:52, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
Since you have nothing further of value to add to the conversation, and have resulted in hateful and derogatory comments. I am done here. Isaidnoway (talk) 21:07, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
And just a reminder, you can be blocked from editing for personal attacks. Isaidnoway (talk) 21:11, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
I'm not the one sealioning. Saikyoryu (talk) 21:12, 21 July 2023 (UTC)strike sock –dlthewave ☎ 16:52, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
Sources

Academic/Scholarly sources and community wide consensus reliable news sources.

  • Nwaka, Jacinta Chiamaka; Odoemene, Akachi (March 2019). ""Baby Factories": Exploitation of Women in Southern Nigeria". Dignity: A Journal on Sexual Exploitation and Violence. 4 (2). University of Rhode Island. doi:10.23860/dignity.2019.04.02.02. In some other instances, they were used for child labour or trafficked for prostitution, ritual purposes, or organ harvesting.
  • Makinde, Olusesan Ayodeji; Olaleye, Olalekan; Makinde, Olufunmbi Olukemi; Huntley, Svetlana S.; Brown, Brandon (2017). "Baby Factories in Nigeria: Starting the Discussion Toward a National Prevention Policy". Trauma, Violence & Abuse. 18 (1). SAGE Publishing: 98–105. doi:10.1177/1524838015591588. ISSN 1524-8380. JSTOR 26638164. While it has been reported that most of the children from baby factories end up as "adoptees" through the wrong route, the potential for their exploitation at these homes as a result of a lack of official status and the possibility of their involvement in illicit activities like prostitution, drug pushing, domestic servitude, and organ harvesting remains (Huntley, 2013).
  • Onuoha, Freedom C. (October 2, 2014). "The evolving menace of baby factories and trafficking in Nigeria". African Security Review. 23 (4): 405–411. doi:10.1080/10246029.2014.941886. West Africa is a region of the world that has long been known as a major hub for child trafficking.
  • Karenga, Paul V. I. Sidlawinde (February 2, 2022). "Forms of Trafficking in West Africa". A West African Model to Address Human Trafficking. Springer Nature. p. 105. ISBN 978-3-030-88120-7. Upon delivery, their babies are sold for international or domestic adoptions, rituals, slave labor, or sexual exploitation.
  • Bagheri, Alireza (June 2016). "Child organ trafficking: global reality and inadequate international response". Medicine, Health Care and Philosophy. 19 (2): 239–246. doi:10.1007/s11019-015-9671-4. PMID 26612382. With the confirmed cases of children being trafficked for their organs, child organ trafficking, which once called a "modern urban legend", is a sad reality in today's world.
  • Igboeroteonwu, Anamesere; Esslemont, Tom (October 12, 2016). "Baby traffickers thriving in Nigeria as recession bites". Reuters. A Thomson Reuters Foundation investigative team spoke to more than 10 Nigerian women duped into giving up their newborns to strangers in houses known as "baby factories".
  • Massalaki, Abdoulaye; Bavier, Joe (August 23, 2014). Pomeroy, Robin (ed.). "Niger minister arrested in 'baby-trafficking' investigation". Reuters. Human trafficking and the sale of children is a long-standing issue across West Africa.
  • Staff and agencies in Copenhagen (April 30, 2014). "Denmark bans Nigeria adoptions after raid on suspected baby factory". The Guardian. Human trafficking is widespread in West Africa, where children are sometimes bought to work on plantations and in mines and factories, or as domestic help. Others are sold into sexual slavery or, less commonly, sacrificed in magic rituals.
  • "Nigeria 'baby factory' raided in Lagos". BBC News. April 26, 2018. The babies can be sold for adoption, used for child labour, trafficked to Europe for prostitution or killed for ritual purposes.
  • Ezekwere, Ijeoma (June 12, 2008). "Nigerian police crack illicit baby trafficking ring". Reuters. Enugu, Nigeria. Authorities in Nigeria suspect some people buy babies to use their body parts in rituals.
  • Obaji Jr, Philip (May 3, 2020). "Survivors of Nigeria's 'baby factories' share their stories". Aljazeera. ritually killed
  • "Nigerian 'baby factory' raided and 32 teenage girls freed". The Telegraph. June 1, 2011. Some children are bought from their families for use as labour in plantations, mines, factories or as domestic help. Others are sold into prostitution while a few are either killed or tortured in black magic rituals.
  • Smith, David (June 2, 2011). "Nigerian 'baby farm' raided – 32 pregnant girls rescued". The Guardian. The girls, mostly of school age, were locked up at the Cross Foundation clinic so they could produce babies to be sold for illegal adoption or for use in ritual witchcraft.
  • Holden, Michael; Dzirutwe, MacDonald (June 24, 2022). James, William; Macfie, Nick (eds.). "Nigerian couple charged with plotting to get child to UK to harvest organs". Reuters. both charged with conspiracy to arrange travel of another person with a view to exploitation, namely organ harvesting, police said.
  • Swinford, Steven (October 18, 2013). "Girl smuggled into Britain to have her 'organs harvested'". The Telegraph. child being trafficked [from Africa] to Britain in order to have their organs harvested
Government sources
  • No, but only on the wording: The proposed wording uses eighteen words in a row from the article, which appears to be a WP:PLAG issue. Otherwise, I currently have no opinion on including or excluding. --Super Goku V (talk) 05:50, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
So as long as the wording is changed, the vote on the content being included is a yes, correct, Super Goku V? Fred Zepelin (talk) 20:08, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
If the wording is changed, then my vote should be considered as if it was stricken. I still do not have any opinion on if it should be included or not. --Super Goku V (talk) 09:00, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
  • Yes The interview makes it very clear that the purpose of the film is to promote the conspiracy theory. — The Hand That Feeds You:Bite 09:30, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
    To be fair, I don't agree with the sentence "... the purpose of the film is to promote the conspiracy theory". The movie is based on a real event, 'romantized', and reproduces the usual common tropes and clichés (White Savior, Turn in Your Badge, etc). But I doubt that the movie was made to promote any conspiracy theory, and I have yet to see sources supporting that claim. On the other hand, the movie is clearly used (and we already have seen many sources supporting this point) to promote QAnon conspiracy theories. Alcyon007 (talk) 10:01, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
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  • I think maybe someone made a typing error. The suggested text doesn't have "the purpose of the film is to promote the conspiracy theory" in it. @HandThatFeeds did you mean to say the purpose of the interview? Saikyoryu (talk) 12:47, 21 July 2023 (UTC)strike sock –dlthewave ☎ 16:52, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
    Nope. I'm not asking anyone to include that statement in the article, but the two principle figures of the film are absolutely using the film itself to push QAnon conspiracy theories, while pretending they've done heroic things. The "based on true events" glosses over that very little in the film is factual, while giving them a vehicle to push QAnon misinformation through the interviews and fans promoting the movie (who are simultaneously accusing anyone who criticizes the film of being pedophiles). — The Hand That Feeds You:Bite 21:49, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
    Ok @HandThatFeeds thank you for clarifying. So you also agree with the statement that the interview that includes the conspiracy theories purpose was to promote the film? Saikyoryu (talk) 21:55, 21 July 2023 (UTC)strike sock –dlthewave ☎ 16:52, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
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  • You are factually wrong in every way possible. The interview included both Ballard and Caviezel, the film's star, and was for the purpose of promoting the film. "Dr. Jordan B. Peterson discusses the new film “Sound of Freedom,” with star Jim Caviezel and real life inspiration Tim Ballard. The film details Ballard’s work as a Special Agent to fight against sex trafficking and the child sex trade." [10] Saikyoryu (talk) 13:12, 21 July 2023 (UTC)strike sock –dlthewave ☎ 16:52, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
    I am responding to the RfC regarding the above paragraph being added. Caviezel's name is not mentioned in said paragraph. Like I said, I am not saying it wouldn't be relevant on Ballard's personal article. However, this article is regarding the film. Grahaml35 (talk) 11:55, 24 July 2023 (UTC)
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  • Yes The sources explicitly note that these were promotional events for the film and discuss this information in relation to the film and how they connect to the film. Thus, these interviews and statements are not independent of the film, but explicitly done in order to promote and extend the purpose of making the film. I am additionally concerned that established users like Isaidnoway and Grahaml35 are trying to promote whitewashing of WP:FRINGE subject matter that is covered by numerous reliable sources that they are seemingly actively ignoring when the sources are being presented to them. Have their accounts been compromised? Or are they simply untrustworthy on neutrally considering FRINGE material topics? SilverserenC 18:20, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
The promotional events were by Tim Ballard, who is not involved in the production of this film. --FMSky (talk) 18:30, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
Ballard and Jim Caviezel, the main star of the film who was playing as Ballard. So, yes, these were promotional events of the film by the cast of the film, who also included the person the film was sourced on in the interviews. Which is all very common to do when promoting a film, such as getting the author of the book involved in the interviews and promotions. SilverserenC 18:33, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
Multiple writers from community wide consensus reliable news outlets have explicitly stated that the film itself does not directly mention any QAnon conspiracy theories.—Tracy, Marc (July 11, 2023). "A Film About Child Trafficking Takes on Summer Blockbusters". The New York Times.—Gularte, Alejandra (July 10, 2023). "Sound of Freedom Earns $40 Million at the Box Office". Vulture.—Scribner, Herb (July 13, 2023). "The man at the center of 'Sound of Freedom' abruptly leaves group he founded". The Washington Post.—della Cava, Marco (July 13, 2023). "Why 'Sound of Freedom,' Jim Caviezel's controversial child sex trafficking film, is a hit". USA Today.
This section in this article, specifically and unequivocally states that "Both Ballard and star Caviezel have been public about their belief in conspiracy theories of the QAnon movement". My main concerns are that (1) the topic of this article (the film) is being turned into a soapbox to list every batshit crazy thing Ballard and Caviezel have ever said. We have previously had entire sections from Ballard's and Caviezel's articles copied/pasted into this article. How many examples of batshit crazy listed in this article is enough (two, four, a dozen, two dozen)? Their respective biographical articles adequately and completely cover their beliefs in conspiracy theories. It's not like we are hiding it from our readers in their articles or this article. This article should provide a brief summary of the coverage in reliable sources, not detailed coverage that bloats the article.
(2) At least one of those sources does not have community wide consensus of reliability and engages in synth. Some sources are being misrepresented. For example: Neither The AZ Republic source or The Atlantic source verify the Wayfair passage as it is written. Neither source says "lent credence" (the belief that something is true), or anything close to that. So that Wayfair content (as written) fails verification, a core policy on WP. We don't use sources to editorialize our own beliefs. And please note that I am specifically responding to the content/sources proposed at the start of this RfC.
Now, having said that, I would support a proposal of amending this sentence: Both Ballard and star Caviezel have been public about their belief in conspiracy theories of the QAnon movement, and while promoting the film in various media appearances, both have reiterated their beliefs in Qanon conspiracy theories. (refs/sources that actually verify → film promotion/reiteration of beliefs) This is a succinct and adequate summary, without the article becoming a magnet for bloated details.
And I shouldn't have to remind an established editor not to cast aspersions as seen here, and make spurious remarks about accounts being compromised or personal attacks about editors trustworthiness. Please keep your replies limited to commenting on the content, not the contributors. Thanks. Isaidnoway (talk) 22:55, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
(Personal attack removed) The marketing of the film is tied to QAnon and numerous Reliable Sources say so. Saikyoryu (talk) 00:53, 23 July 2023 (UTC)strike sock –dlthewave ☎ 16:52, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
This suggestion by Isaidnoway... "Both Ballard and star Caviezel have been public about their belief in conspiracy theories of the QAnon movement, and while promoting the film in various media appearances, both have reiterated their beliefs in Qanon conspiracy theories."... seems fairly reasonable and neutral. I would also keep the NYT context as long as it is confirmed and accurate (I don't subscribe) "He told The New York Times "Some of these theories have allowed people to open their eyes, so now it’s our job to flood the space with real information so the facts can be shared." DN (talk) 06:29, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
I highly rebuke the suggestion that my account has been "compromised" or I am simply untrustworthy on controversial topics. There have been many users that have been against inclusion so I am not sure why Isaidnoway & I are being singled out. In fact, I mentioned that the paragraph would be better suited on Ballard's own article. I simply do not see how this one interview is significant enough to justify inclusion, as well as Caviezel, the actor in the movie, is not mentioned in the proposed paragraph. Grahaml35 (talk) 12:09, 24 July 2023 (UTC)
  • No Unless we have a transcript, we don't know if the video represents what was actuslly said. Even with a transcript, we don't know if it is accurate. Furthermore, we would have to establish that the interview was significant to the topic. TFD (talk) 19:42, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
  • What the frick, The Four Deuces? When has we don't know if the video represents what was actually said. Even with a transcript, we don't know if it is accurate ever been a statement made about reliable source coverage? You're basically saying any coverage of statements made in reliable sources are unreliable? Why are you actively pushing pro-fringe whitewashing? SilverserenC 19:53, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
TFD, you are somewhat misrepresenting the purpose of this RfC. No one is suggesting that the youtube clip alone is enough of a source - in fact, it's only there for reference. Reliable sources do discuss the interview: Insider, Vice, The Federalist, Forbes, The Independent... The list goes on. An article at KCRW.com states "Ballard recently told right-wing podcaster Jordan Peterson that claimed adrenochrome harvesting is real." How many more do you need? Fred Zepelin (talk) 20:16, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

Yes the interview is mostly about the film, there is a source about the interview and the film, and it is important to a reader's understanding about the background of the film. Andrew Englehart (talk) 04:09, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

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Unless we have a transcript, we don't know if the video represents Are you asking for Original Research @The Four Deuces? isn't that against wikipedia policy? And we do have Reliable Resources stating that the interviews are promotional events for the film and tie the film to QAnon conspiracy theories. Saikyoryu (talk) 00:54, 23 July 2023 (UTC)strike sock –dlthewave ☎ 16:52, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
No original research says, "Wikipedia does not publish original thought." It "does not apply to talk pages and other pages which evaluate article content and sources." Obviously we cannot discuss what content to include or exclude except by determining whether it is consistent with policies and guidelines.
Even reliable news media routinely edit interviews before they are broadcast. Professional ethics only require that the edited version reflects what the subject meant to say. There's no reason to believe that Peterson, who is not a professional journalist, follows those guidelines.
Because Peterson's youtube channel is not a reliable source, we cannot be assured that transcripts prepared by it are accurate. Even if you  believed that Peterson was concerned about accuracy, you don't know how diligent he is in correcting any errors that could occur through transcription. TFD (talk) 05:40, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ Long, Katherine. "'Sound of Freedom,' this summer's surprise blockbuster, is fronted by a QAnon supporter and financed by a man who defrauded Medicare". Insider. Retrieved 18 July 2023.
  2. ^ "Jim Caviezel and Tim Ballard EP 372". YouTube. Retrieved 18 July 2023.
  3. ^ Robinson, KiMi. "Why is Wayfair accused of trafficking children? 7 things to know about the conspiracy theory". The Arizona Republic. Retrieved 19 July 2023.
  4. ^ Tiffany, Kaitlyn (9 December 2021). "The Great (Fake) Child-Sex-Trafficking Epidemic". The Atlantic. Retrieved 19 July 2023.
  5. ^ Cite error: The named reference Independent was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  6. ^ https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/12/technology/qanon-save-the-children-trafficking.html
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