Talk:Sonic Frontiers/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: DecafPotato (talk · contribs) 22:14, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

Hello! This is my first review, so I encourage others to correct me, but my review should be here somewhat soon. DecafPotato (talk) 22:14, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

Gameplay

• The player can double jump, sidestep using their gamepad's shoulder buttons, drop dash, and boost with the right trigger if they have enough energy – You could probably remove the details on how these actions are performed and stick to that they can be performed—WP:GAMECRUFT #3 kind of covers this.
• Sonic also has the ability to boost even faster upon collecting the maximum amount of rings, gaining a blue aura reminiscent of his counterpart from the Sonic the Hedgehog film series. – This is sourced to the game's Wiki Guide on IGN, which is unreliable per WP:UGC.
  • On the same note, the sentences immediately preceding and succeeding that one are sourced to Game Rant and TheGamer, respectively. While the removal of situational sources is not required for a GA, it would be appreciated if they could be substituted with a generally reliable source.
• The world retains traditional Sonic elements, such as springs, boost pads, and grind rails, akin to past hub worlds in the series like Sonic Adventure and Sonic Unleashed but on a greater scale. – Is the comparison to Adventure and Unleashed needed here? As someone who hasn't played either game, it doesn't assist in my understanding of Frontiers' gameplay.
• ... and Memory Tokens, which are used to trigger cutscenes conversations with Sonic's friends — that either progress the plot (occasionally via minigames) or expand on their characters and relationships with Sonic in side stories. – This sentence doesn't really make sense until details on the plot are given—perhaps this information can be incorporated in that section.
• The main quest takes 20–30 hours to finish, while finding all collectibles, exploring all parts of the islands, and completing all side stories takes as much as 60 hours – I don't think this information needs to be included.
• "Cyber Space" — short, linear levels similar to those from previous Sonic games. (in § Gameplay) and Cyber Space, a digital realm connected to the islands (in § Characters) — These explain the same thing with a different definition. Having played the game, I know that one is explaining it from a gameplay perspective and another from a story perspective, but perhaps that could be made more clear, and the explanations themselves could be combined.
• A fishing minigame is also included ... – The word "minigame" is included above in "occasionally via minigames", it should instead be linked on its first occurrence there.
• Collecting all seven Chaos Emeralds allows the player to transform into Super Sonic, who is required to defeat the game's major bosses, the Titans. – Similar to the explanation of the Memory Tokens, this makes no sense until the plot section is read, which is lower in the article.
• Although the game's difficulty can be changed at any time, the final boss, which is fought as Super Sonic and Sage (possessing the Supreme Titan) in a top-down shoot 'em up gameplay style similar to Ikaruga, requires the player to be playing on Hard to fight it and all of its phases – Is the fact that the player must be on hard difficulty to unlock the boss needed to explain the article? It may be WP:GAMEGUIDE material. Additionally, who is Sage? She's once again explained in the lower Characters section.

That's it for Gameplay, I'll continue with the rest of the sections shortly. DecafPotato (talk) 23:16, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

Done!

• In regards to the source for the "infinite boost" mechanic, I've added a YouTube video by Sonic Team (released under their official channel) which seems reliable enough.
• In regards to Cyber Space and it's descriptions, I've included it within the lead itself, as it is also a prominent game feature, and allows the reader to understand the concept later on when mentioned.
• The Chaos Emerald article is linked in the lead to explain what they are, along with Super Sonic's article being linked in the highlighted sentence. I believe the section is explained well enough, and the citation is added for extra comprehension if necessary.

DS_X1 (talk) 01:17, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

• Per MOS:REPEATLINK, the term "Chaos Emeralds" should be linked on its first occurrence both inside and outside the lead. Otherwise, looks good! DecafPotato (talk) 09:23, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

  Got it! Done. 👍 DS_X1 (talk) 12:38, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

Synopsis

• Players control Sonic in exploring the Starfall Islands archipelago to collect the Chaos Emeralds and investigate the islands' relationship to them. – Most of this is duplicate information from the opening sentence of § Gameplay—all of this information could be incorporated there instead.
• One of Sonic's objectives is to rescue three of his friends — Miles "Tails" Prower and Amy Rose, who initially accompany Sonic in his investigation; and Knuckles the Echidna, who was transported there earlier from the ruins above Angel Island — from Cyber Space, a digital realm connected to the islands. Sonic's friends project themselves as holograms in the real world while trapped, allowing them to interact with and advise Sonic. – This feels like information that should be given in § Plot or § Gameplay (along with the Memory Tokens), as it is heavily tied to that.
• Big the Cat makes an appearance as a host for a fishing minigame. – Put this in § Gameplay where the fishing minigame is introduced.
• For the Characters section overall, I feel like pretty much all of this information could be included in just the Gameplay or Plot sections.
• Said Plot section seems to have its own problems with being a bit too long—is four paragraphs necessary for a Sonic game?
  • Additionally, paragraphs one and two could be combined here—they're both about how the characters ended up in Cyber Space.
• Upon reaching and interacting with a portal to Cyber Space, several robotic defense units are summoned. Sage, detecting a threat signature from the defense units, ceases hijacking the portal and initiates a protection protocol, dragging Eggman into Cyber Space. – I feel as though this could be shortened a bit. Maybe "Upon reaching and interacting with a portal to Cyber Space, Sage detects a threat signature from summoned defense units, initiating a protection protocall and dragging Eggman into Cyber Space" could work? I didn't put a lot of thought into that, though. I'm sure you can think of something better.
• A disembodied voice comments on Sonic's "impossible" escape, and tasks him with finding the Chaos Emeralds and destroying the island's robotic "Titans" to remove the boundary between the real and digital worlds. – Why are "Titans" in quotations here? They're already explained in § Gameplay.
• ... which resumes its attack on Earth using the last Titan, Supreme, prompting Sonic's friends to purge the corruption from him by sacrificing their physical forms. – The "him" in "purge the corruption from him" sounds like it may be referring to Supreme. Sonic isn't really the subject of the phrase "Sonic's friends"—his friends are, making Supreme the most recent subject of a sentence.
• Sonic's friends are restored and leave the islands with him, now wishing to make a difference in their lives after their experiences. – Is the fact that they wish to make a difference in their lives worth including here?

TL;DR: Cut § Characters, shorten § Plot. Otherwise, looks good, and more sections will be reviewed soon. :) DecafPotato (talk) 09:23, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

Done! :) Yeah, the Character section really wasn't needed, especially as it isn't included in WP:VGLAYOUT. Shortened § Plot as well 👍 DS_X1 (talk) 13:23, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

I still think § Plot could be a bit shorter, but otherwise the changes look good. DecafPotato (talk) 21:44, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

Development

• I feel like this section says "Sonic Team" too much – simply "the team", "the developers" or just "they" work fine.
• Iizuka felt the series needed to take an innovative direction that would inform future games, similar to how Sonic the Hedgehog (1991) and Sonic Adventure (1998) set templates used by later games – Should this not be included earlier when it states that Sonic Team aimed to find a consistent format for the next decade of Sonic?
• As such, he declined to call it an open-world game, preferring the term "open zone". – Verifiability, not truth, sure, and I also just may be wrong, but isn't it "open-zone" because it's split into five zones rather than one cohesive world?
  • Additionally, while the provided reference does verify that the team prefers the term "open zone" over "open world" it does not verify that that decision was made because "Iizuka felt Sonic's essence as a 3D action game separated Frontiers from adventure and role-playing games such as the Legend of Zelda series.
• Sonic Team sought to address criticism that previous Sonic games were too short – This information is already included in § Conception.
• For the GameSpot interview reference, the video isn't loading for me, so I guess I just assume everything is verified correctly? Archive URLs would definitely help here—remember to include them whenever you can! You'll need them for a Featured Article, anyways.
• With the Cyber Space levels, Kishimoto wanted Sonic to "once again... stand amongst the other 'stage-clear' action games" that he enjoyed – What's a 'stage-clear' action game? It can be explained in a footnote if you want, but it has to be explained regardless.
• Ian Flynn, who wrote Sonic the Hedgehog comics published by Archie Comics – Sonic the Hedgehog (Archie Comics) is an article; is there a reason it links to Sonic comics in general?
• Kishimoto did the Japanese localization using Flynn's script as a base, making changes to suit the Japanese market – Similarly, video game localization could be linked here.
• ... plays during the second phase of the battle against Supreme, the fourth and final Titan of the game – Supreme is introduced in § Plot, so only a name is needed here.
• Sleeping with Sirens vocalist Kellin Quinn appears on three Titan battle themes; "Undefeatable", "Break Through It All" and "Find Your Flame", and vocalist and producer Tyler Smyth of DangerKids features on the latter track. The other two ending themes are "Dear Father" and "One Way Dream", performed by Quinn Barnitt and Nathan Sharp respectively. The latter song plays in place of "Vandalize" if the game is completed on hard difficulty. – All of this is unsourced.

Besides the above comments, the section looks good and was an interesting read, so thank you! DecafPotato (talk) 21:44, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

Done!

• The GameSpot video didn't work when I first clicked, but it seems to be loading properly now. Still archived it though.
• Added Spotify citations for the official album songs, since the credits show the performers' names

DS_X1 (talk) 01:11, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

Reception

• Pre-release reception looks good
• For § Post-release, while topic sentences are good, they need better sourcing. If you want to say The controls received mixed responses, you need to cite more than two sources to accurately represent the opinions of critics at large, especially when three other sources are cited within that paragraph (same for other paragraph).
• For sentences like Video Games Chronicles noted that the controls had been tightened up, but still occasionally had issues and ... Shacknews also noted the "stunning visuals" of Frontiers, be wary of using the verb "noting" to describe anything but facts. (see the last bullet point of WP:CRS—while CRS isn't a WP:P&G, the relevant bit is rooted in them)
• {{Video game reviews}} outlines that reviews defined in the table must be detailed in prose—in this vein, the Famitsu score should either be removed from the table or incorporated into the prose.
• Some publications noted that user review scores were comparable to those for acclaimed games such as Breath of the Wild and Elden Ring (2022). – Although this is being sourced to reliable publications, I'm fairly sure that user review scores still should not be included in articles (the WaPo source is okay, though—it outlines the views of the community and doesn't lean on user review scores, instead judging community consensus itself). Besides, is this information worth including? User review scores are always weird, this is nothing special.
• The game was nominated in the Players' Voice category at The Game Awards 2022 – Did Frontiers not receive any other awards or nominations? If it did, a "accolades" or "awards and nominations" section (see Accolades|Celeste for an example) should be made.
• In § Sales, specific numbers aren't needed, e.g. 26,067 could be replaced with over 26,000, around 26,000, or maybe even just 26,000.

Section looks good overall! If I'm being honest I was kind of ready to say a LOT more about this section, but the expansion to it fixed a lot of those issues before I could even review the full thing! Only the lead (I forgot about § Release, lol) to go, now. DecafPotato (talk) 04:32, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

Done! :) Just confirming:

• "the lead (I forgot about § Release, lol)"

means that § Release addressed your concerns? since you said "to go now" later on DS_X1 (talk) 16:58, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

No, the bit about § Release was added after, crossing out the bit about the lead (it's hard to see the strike-through, though). I meant that I thought the lead was the only thing left, but I realized that I forgot to review § Release, lol. Two to go. :) DecafPotato (talk) 19:20, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

Release

• It officially went gold on October 22, 2022, and finally released on November 8, 2022 ... – Does using the term "went gold" add anything? "Finished development" is more clear and more understandable to a general audience. And "finally released" is a bit non-NPoV-y—just "released" is fine.
• In Japan, the game features various ... – Use "featured", past tense.
• ... who also serves as the Japanese brand ambassador of the Sonic series ... – The Japanese brand ambassador? Is she the only one?
• The whole part about the VTuber crossovers could probably be shortened—it is not super important to the overall marketing of the game in my opinion, especially when things like the IGN collaboration garnered significant media attention. Worth including, sure, but unless more sources can be found, I think less information is needed.
  • And besides, isn't this § Marketing info? I usually combine the two sections into "Marketing and release", but if they are separated, make sure that each section does not accidentally contain info about the other.
• The game's backstory detailing how Sonic and his friends come to the Islands was elaborated on via pre-release promotional media under the name Sonic Frontiers Prologue – This sentence feels clunky to me. A possible solution would be Additional information that serves as a prelude to Frontiers' plot was detailed in pre-release promotional media titled Sonic Frontiers Prolouge—obviously improve that if you can, but I think it's a good starting point.
• ... released in October 2022; and an accompanying animated short ... – Is this a proper use of a semi-colon?

Main thing here is that § Marketing and § Release could be combined and detailed (roughly) chronologically instead. Other than that, it looks good. Now it's actually only the lead to go. DecafPotato (talk) 06:50, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

Done! :)

• Also, combined Marketing and Release as suggested, looks smoother and fixes a lot of placement issues. 👍

DS_X1 (talk) 13:11, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

Lead

• First off, I'd replace the first occurance "Sonic the Hedgehog" (the character) with simply "Sonic", and the first occurance of "Sonic" (the series) with Sonic the Hedgehog.
• Frontiers integrates platforming and traditional Sonic elements—such as rings and grind rails—into the series' first open world environment – This makes it sound like platforming isn't a traditional Sonic element.
• Players can solve puzzles, complete challenges, collect items and battle robotic enemies and colossal Titans. By accessing "Cyber Space" portals, players complete traditional platforming levels based on those from previous Sonic games. – I think this could be rephrased a bit. A quick idea from me is to say "Within the open world, players complete certain challenges and battle robotic enemies, and in "Cyber Space" levels, they can complete levels adapted from previous Sonic games".
• Sega trademarked the title "Sonic Frontiers" in November 2021 ... – I don't know if this information is neccesarily important enough for the lead.
• ... and announced it at The Game Awards 2021 the next month – In line with the feedback directly above, I'd say this could be changed to just "Frontiers was announced in December 2021"—the venue isn't really needed here.
• Sonic Frontiers was released for the Nintendo Switch, PlayStation 4, PlayStation 5, Windows, Xbox One, and Xbox Series X/S on November 8, 2022. Sonic Frontiers received mixed reviews from critics. – Two sentences in a row starting with "Sonic Frontiers" doesn't flow the best. The second sentence could be replaced with "Upon release, it received mixed reviews from critics".
• They praised the open world, visuals, plot and soundtrack, but found aspects of the gameplay repetitive. However, it was received more favorably by fans of the series ... – The word "however" here may be a NPoV issue—these statements don't really seem to contrast each other, as what the article says critics disliked are completely separate to what it says fans did like.
• ... and set a record for the largest number of concurrent players for a Sonic game on Steam – Is this information noteworthy enough for the lead?

Sorry for the delay—as mentioned below, it's been a busy week. The lead looks good, though, and once these are adressed, I'll do one final look through the article, as certain sections have been adjusted/added to since I reviewed them. However, the article looks really good, and I don't foresee any issues with the article being passed. DecafPotato (talk) 23:39, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

Done!

• Included "platforming" as one of the traditional elements
• Chose a re-phrasal for the third point that's a bit similar to what you gave
• The venue was removed, kept "Frontiers was announced in December 2021" instead

DS_X1 (talk) 01:52, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Final assessment

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

   File:SonicFrontiersCoverArt.jpg uses the Nintendo store as the image source, but only the horizontal cover art is found on that website. The source needs to be adjusted to where the vertical art was found.

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

I just need the file source to be fixed, but the rest of the GA criteria seem to be met! (If an onlooker doesn't think so, now's the time to yell "Objection!") Otherwise, good work on the article, and Happy New Year! DecafPotato (talk) 23:45, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

 Done Found here. Updated the source to reflect it as well. Happy New Years! :) DS_X1 (talk) 01:22, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

 Done – Passed! Good work! DecafPotato (talk) 23:35, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Comments

• Hey DSXG Plays—just updating you: I've been busy with Christmas (traveling, being with family, etc.), so haven't had a lot of time to work online, sorry about that! I'll most continue around the 26th, if that's okay. DecafPotato (talk) 20:14, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

• Comment: I'm sorry, but this article isn't ready for GA in the slightest. There is a ton of development/release/marketing information that isn't in the article, it's not well written (e.g. there's a comprised of in the opening paragraph of the lede), and the reception section is awfully small for a game that got as many reviews as it did. The nominator also isn't really a major contributor to the article. I'm disappointed I didn't see this nom quickly enough or I would've pulled it. There are too many issues for it to be a GA now. JOEBRO⁶⁴ 20:21, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

  @TheJoebro64 Thanks for the feedback! I understand your concerns about the development/release/marketing information and the reception section, but I believe that the article meets the Good Article criteria.

  • Development/release/marketing information: I believe the article provides a comprehensive overview of the game's development process, including relevant details about the team, challenges faced, and changes made during development.
  • Reception: I’ve expanded the reception section to provide a more detailed summary of the critical response to the game while citing reliable sources to support it.
  • Writing quality: Can you be a bit more specific? I don’t really see issues with the prose, and I believe it complies with WP:MOSVG and MOS:LAYOUT. I’m also the second-largest contributor in authorship, (6th in edits at time of writing) for the article, most of it being for Reception, Gameplay and the Plot.

  Thanks again for the feedback! I would be happy to receive more specific feedback on any issues you’ve identified, and I’m willing to work on improving the article further to meet the Good Article criteria. DS_X1 (talk) 13:17, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

  My main problems are: (1) There are several substantial development interviews in the refideas on talk that aren't implemented. (2) I don't think the reception section is comprehensive enough, although your expansion has been good. It reads a little too skewed towards positive responses when the game's reception was more mixed than the section makes it out to be. As for prose, I think it needs to a copyedit; there are some run-ons or confusingly-worded portions that need some tightening. For example, Frontiers features sections within "Cyber Space", a digital dimension comprised of traditional platforming levels based on previous Sonic games. These levels are accessible through various portals within the open world. → By accessing portals, players complete traditional platforming levels based on those from previous Sonic games.

  Part of my issue is that, as the main writer of this article, you didn't notify me that you were nominating this article for GA. Wikipedia:Good article nominations/Instructions says "nominators who are not significant contributors to the article must consult regular editors of the article on the article talk page prior to a nomination." I feel like I should've been notified as I had been planning to do additional work on this in the near future and have a lot of issues with the article at present. JOEBRO⁶⁴ 01:05, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

  I understand, I should've followed the guidelines properly and reached out to you before nominating, sorry for not doing so, especially since you planned to make necessary changes in advance.

  I'll withdraw the nomination if you don't want it to be nominated right now, just confirming.@TheJoebro64

  Thanks again for the feedback. Sorry for any confusion caused by the nomination process. DS_X1 (talk) 01:46, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

  @DSXG Plays: I don't mind if you continue the nomination—it's ultimately up to DecafPotato if the article meets GA standards, as he's the reviewer. I'll still come back to do my planned expansions regardless of whether it's a GA or not, if the content isn't integrated already. I just tend to have high standards for articles I've created/expanded and as this is one of them I had some opinions I felt I should share. JOEBRO⁶⁴ 21:50, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

  Yeah, by all means make the changes. While future changes aren't within the scope of the GAN, the GAN certainly shouldn't stop the article from further improvement. DecafPotato (talk) 04:32, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

@DecafPotatoNo problem! 👍 DS_X1 (talk) 11:41, 25 December 2022 (UTC)