Talk:Songs and Flowers of the Wasatch

A fact from Songs and Flowers of the Wasatch appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 21 October 2023 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that Songs and Flowers of the Wasatch represented a shift in Mormon history toward a "socially-accepted American cultural and religious heritage", according to historian Jennifer Reeder?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2023/October. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Songs and Flowers of the Wasatch.

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Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Vaticidalprophet talk 10:16, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment or view
Article history

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... that Songs and Flowers of the Wasatch, an anthology of Utah women's poetry created for display at the 1893 World's Columbian Exposition, had hand-painted illustrations? Source: (on _Songs and Flowers_) "The Utah Board of Lady Managers tapped Emmeline B. Wells to edit an anthology of poetry written by many of Utah's leading female writers and poetesses specifically for display at the Columbian Exposition." -Reid Neilson "The Utah World's Fair Commission: The Utah Territory at the Columbian Exposition" book chapter (digital version unpaginated); "Poems are typeset and flowers are hand-painted." metadata for the digitized version of the copy in the BYU Library
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Joya_no_Kane

Created by Rachel Helps (BYU) (talk). Self-nominated at 17:48, 25 August 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Songs and Flowers of the Wasatch; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.[reply]

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook eligibility:

Cited:
Interesting: - n

QPQ: Done.

Overall:

@Rachel Helps (BYU): Good article, but the hook isn't interesting to me. Can something else be proposed? Onegreatjoke (talk) 20:10, 24 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the review, Onegreatjoke. The significance of the book is very much "inside baseball" of Mormon studies, but I'll try for a more interesting hook. How about:

ALT 1 "... that according to Mormon women's historian Jennifer Reeder, Songs and Flowers of the Wasatch, an anthology of Utah women's poetry created for display at the 1893 World's Columbian Exposition, represented a "pivotal" shift in Mormon history toward a "socially-accepted American cultural and religious heritage"?"

or

ALT 2 "... that Eliza R. Snow's poem, "Invocation", which mentions the Mormon doctrine of Heavenly Mother, appears in Songs and Flowers of the Wasatch, an anthology of Utah women's poetry created for display at the 1893 World's Columbian Exposition?"

I remember something about not being able to quote critics in DYK hooks, but I couldn't find the rule about it, so maybe it's not actually a rule? Rachel Helps (BYU) (talk) 18:04, 25 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Rachel Helps (BYU): While neat, these hooks are too big and pass the 200 character limit quite heavily so they will need to be shortened. Onegreatjoke (talk) 02:37, 28 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Onegreatjoke: Oops, my mistake. How much context can I leave out? ALT 3 is 209 characters. ALT 4 is 129.

ALT 3 "... that Songs and Flowers of the Wasatch represented a shift in Mormon history toward a "socially-accepted American cultural and religious heritage", according to historian Jennifer Reeder?"

ALT 4 "... that Songs and Flowers of the Wasatch includes a poem about Heavenly Mother?"

Rachel Helps (BYU) (talk) 16:25, 28 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This is a drive-by comment but I feel that ALT 4 might not be appealing much to those unfamiliar with the LDS Church's beliefs, particularly about the Heavenly Mother. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 01:07, 29 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Approve new hooks though mainly alt3. Onegreatjoke (talk) 18:04, 6 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]