Talk:Something That May Shock and Discredit You/GA1

GA Review

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Reviewer: Bilorv (talk · contribs) 12:37, 7 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

To me, Lavery is the man who penned the infamous Black Mirror parody "what if phones, but too much", so I was excited to hear about some of his other writing.

I've just got one major comment, and then it'll be nitpicks all the way down: I'd like to see more in "Background" (or possibly elsewhere) about the writing process or Lavery's relevant background. For instance, the book has lots of Biblical themes, so I have questions like: is Lavery still a Christian? What was his experience with the Bible in childhood? etc. And Electric Literature talks about his experience with Bible study, which might be as good an answer as we'll get. Similarly, with the writing process I have questions like: when did he start writing it (pre-coming out publicly or not)? What inspired it? What was he trying to achieve with the book? Maybe most of these questions won't be answered. But see if there's anything more you can find out from interview sources.

Nitpicks:

The article should say somewhere that Lavery is American or the book is American.
- ? Where do you think this should go?
  - "is an American memoir" or "by the American writer Daniel M. Lavery" in the first sentence of the lead would work, or anywhere else that's sensible. — Bilorv (talk) 11:17, 8 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    - Done.
The Toast should be italicised throughout (publication name).
- Done
"Daniel M. Lavery, founder of The Toast" – Merge The Toast mention to the next sentence, rather than mentioning twice.
- Done
Prior to his transition, he had been known as a feminist implies that he no longer is, which I don't think is intentional.
- Done, I just removed that - it's covered nicely by his running of a feminist website.
after his gender transition ... (written pre-transition) ... (published just after he came out as transgender): it'd be better to introduce all the terminology at the start and stick with the same phrasing throughout, I think. At the risk of possibly patronising a trans person with this explanation, "gender transition" doesn't generally have a clear "after" (you might have to continue taking hormones or later decide on [further] surgery etc.), so I might avoid the term and stick with "pre/post-coming out" when talking about points in time.
- Done, I think, though I'm happy to change more if you think it'd be better.
  - I'm not sure I see what you've changed here, in the first paragraph of the Background, and I think my points still stand. — Bilorv (talk) 11:17, 8 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    - Okay, I tried again - see what you think? It's tricky because I don't want to make assumptions about the relationship between the start of his transition and his coming out as transgender. Those could be the same in his experience, or either could come before the other, so I want to follow what the sources say.
      - I'm happy with the text as it now stands. — Bilorv (talk) 18:39, 8 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It's implicit that Lavery uses "he/him" pronouns but does he identify as a man? Is trans man a good link for somewhere?
- ? Some sources describe him as a man while others do so as "transmasculine", which seems to also be the terminology he uses most in the book. I don't think the sourcing is really explicit enough for a link, unless you disagree?
  - Nope, that's right not to link—just wasn't sure of the situation. — Bilorv (talk) 11:17, 8 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
and comprises a series of personal essays – No need to link essay (readers should know what it means), and I think this might flow better as "... through a series of personal essays".
- Done
There are some curly quotes in “Sir Gawain Just Wants to Leave Castle Make-Out”—see MOS:CURLY. Check for them elsewhere too.
- Done
  - Still several other curly quotes e.g. ‘Velvet Goldmine’. — Bilorv (talk) 11:17, 8 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    - Yikes, you're right. Fixed
The blockquote might benefit from links to Velvet Goldmine, the Smiths and Alannah Myles.
- Done
The Wall Street Journal quote is a bit long and could be chopped up and paraphrased, like: "He told The Wall Street Journal that he aimed to be open about his 'thinking and feeling internally' but private about people in his life ..."
- Done
Particularly as it's mentioned in the lead, we need to hear what these common tropes of gender transition that Lavery avoids are (are Lavery's attempts to convince himself not to transition part of it?) — Bilorv (talk) 11:17, 8 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- Done, I think
  - I think I understand the meaning but such as expression of a desire not to be transgender is a bit ambiguous about whether this is the trope or the aversion of the trope. — Bilorv (talk) 11:17, 8 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    - Reworded. Maybe the reword actually makes it less clear but I don't want to move too far from the source.
      - Looks alright to me. — Bilorv (talk) 18:39, 8 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
In the references section, you might like to write "USA Today" and "The Guardian" with those capitalizations.
- Done
The infobox should give the date of publishing (not just year) and have the publisher in a separate parameter (see the documentation).
- Done
You might like a footnote in the lead and infobox that gives the author's credited name, like I did at Dead Blondes and Bad Mothers, because readers might be quite immediately confused if they're looking at a book cover with a different name to the author we have listed.
- Done

The prose is high-quality; the article covers all the major aspects of the subject; references are reliable and used appropriately; image use (including fair use rationale) is good. Thanks for your work so far and hopefully these comments are useful. — Bilorv (talk) 12:37, 7 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'll put this

on hold for a week, by the way, and hope to see good progress by then. — Bilorv (talk) 12:44, 7 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks so much for reviewing this, Bilorv! I've made changes to address your comments, so this is ready for another look whenever you have a chance. I've marked questions above with

. ezlev (user/tlk/ctrbs) 22:18, 7 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Great, thanks for the quick responses, Ezlev. Some very interesting additions to the Background section in particular. I've left a few replies. — Bilorv (talk) 11:17, 8 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Ready for another look, Bilorv! ezlev (user/tlk/ctrbs) 17:58, 8 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the replies, Ezlev, and with this minor edit I'm happy to give this a

pass for GA. — Bilorv (talk) 18:39, 8 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you so much! ezlev (user/tlk/ctrbs) 18:42, 8 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]