Talk:Slavic creation myth

A fact from Slavic creation myth appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 24 October 2020 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that according to Slavic mythology, the creation of the world required the cooperation of a "good god" and an "evil god"?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2020/October. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Slavic creation myths.

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Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 10:28, 14 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Article history

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Creation of the Earth, Maxim Sukharev.

~~... that according to the Slavs, creation of the world required the cooperation of two gods?~~ Source: Aleksander Gieysztor (2006). "... two main motifs intertwine: the oceanic motif of the primal waters, where the seed of the Earth is to come from, and the dualistic thread of the creation of the world and man in the necessary cooperation of two antagonistic beings."
- ALT1:... that there are three versions of Slavic creation myth?

Comment: My English is not the best, please help me with language errors.

Created by Sławobóg (talk). Self-nominated at 17:11, 11 September 2020 (UTC).[reply]

Comment: Hi, Sławobóg. The hooks are interesting. You can also add one about the myth requiring the cooperation of the devil instead of the two gods. I suggest: 1) adding more citations as there are unsourced parts; and, 2) rephrasing some content to avoid using several or lengthy block quotes. Good luck. Darwin Naz (talk) 22:57, 12 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. Hook has to be like that because there is no "God" or "Devil" in the Slavic mythology and it is explained in the article. Everything in the article is sourced. I don't understand last part. There are just few quotes and these are pretty important. Sławobóg (talk) 12:27, 15 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Sławobóg. The article does cite the Devil in the "dualistic motif". Regarding the unsourced parts, when you make a factual claim (ex. "The dualistic creation myth by "evil god" diving has 24 credentials in Balto-Slavic areas and 12 credentials in Finno-Ugric areas."), you have to provide your reference. Otherwise, it constitutes primary research WP:OR. About the block quotes. Certainly, there are important ones. However, there are those that you are expected to paraphrase. Take the case of the first block quote (Creation by diving). The subsection did not provide a description of this myth but simply pasted the narrative. Darwin Naz (talk) 23:56, 15 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. Article indeed does cite "God and the Devil" but even in the lead there is explanation that God is "good god" and the Devil is "bad god" from Slavic mythology. Again – there is no "Devil" in Slavic mythology, it is just christianized nickname of god of Underworld. That "unsourced" part has a reference 2 sentences later because all 3 sentences are from the same part in the book. Sławobóg (talk) 17:07, 16 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Does the god and devil have a native name? --evrik ^(talk) 19:32, 16 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

God and Devil are Interpretatio Christiana. Actual figures behind that myths are reconstructed as Perun and Veles and it is stated in the article. Sławobóg (talk) 22:07, 16 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I think that you should use the names, rather than god/devil. --evrik ^(talk) 23:08, 16 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

But in folklore they are always "God" and "Devil". The way I wrote the article and hooks is the only one that makes sense. Sławobóg (talk) 14:25, 17 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Okay. @Sławobóg: Do you have to contribute a QPQ? --evrik ^(talk) 14:53, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This is my third nomination for DYK yet. (see profile) Sławobóg (talk) 15:03, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook eligibility:

Cited:
Interesting:
Other problems: - hook needs rewording

Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
Freely licensed: Used in article: Clear at 100px:

QPQ: None required.

Overall: Earwig flags one quote, but otherwise okay. QPQ issue needs resolving. --evrik ^(talk) 14:53, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

ALT0a:... that according to the Slavs, creation of the world required the cooperation of two gods, one good and one evil?
ALT0b:... that according to the Slavs, the creation of the world required the cooperation of a "good god" and an "evil god"?
Need some help with the hook. I have proposed two alternates. Everything else is okay. --evrik ^(talk) 15:18, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Problem is that "Slavic dualism" is hard topic and "Slavic dualism" probably wasn't as exetreme like it is in christianity or zoroastrianism. Devil is always reconstructed as Veles, but Veles was not god of evil, but god of underground, magic and wealth. So IMO most correct way is just "... required the cooperation of two gods" or "...required the cooperation of "good god" and "evil god"", so it will be less confusing. Sławobóg (talk) 15:43, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

... so Alt0b is best for you? --evrik ^(talk) 15:55, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I think it is best one. Sławobóg (talk) 15:57, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hook review needed from a new reviewer. --evrik ^(talk) 18:21, 29 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Evrik Sławobóg ALT0b is perfectly fine to me, but I did notice that the reference at the end of the Creation from the Cosmic Egg subsection needs a reference to be fixed and the end of the Creation from dismemberment subsection needs a reference. SL93 (talk) 20:40, 10 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

SL93 Szyjewski 2003, p. 36-38. appears to coiver the cosmic egg section. Fixed the other. --evrik ^(talk) 20:51, 10 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Done Sławobóg (talk) 09:56, 11 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. This is ready. SL93 (talk) 15:39, 11 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I came by to promote this, but I can't follow that ridiculously long paragraph under "Creation by diving". @SL93:@Evrik: could you? Yoninah (talk) 19:08, 13 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Yoninah: fixed.--evrik ^(talk) 21:12, 13 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the fixes, evrik. Restoring tick per above reviews. Yoninah (talk) 10:27, 14 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Overlong paragraph

Sławobóg could you break up that overlong paragraph under "Creation by diving"? Thanks, Yoninah (talk) 19:04, 13 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Triglav

In Kievan Rus' it was believed that "the high mountain of Triglav appeared first from the water".[10][1]

Triglav is pretty far away from Kievan Rus. Was another Triglav meant? 93.136.98.203 (talk) 13:25, 29 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]