Talk:Sigma Mu Sigma

Loss of Alpha Second distinction

In the early January, 2023 round of edits, a distinction was lost regarding the re-establishment of Alpha chapter of the Fraternity at Trine (Tri-State) when Clyde Shaw revived the group even while the original chapter was participating in several attempted mergers. Rublamb, your edit noted that the Fraternity's website doesn't make a distinction between Alpha Prime and Alpha Second, but in this case I think it a more fair reading of the facts to accept that the two groups should be distinct from each other. Alpha Prime went on to eventually become a chapter of Kappa Sigma, apparently flourishing even while the 1940 re-started chapter of SMS, Alpha Second went on to become a chapter of Acacia. I think we ought to identify them as such rather than listing both on the same line of the table. Jax MN (talk) 05:00, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

I don't feel strongly about it one way or the other. The advantage of splitting into two entries in the table is that you can specifically show both withdrawals and which group they went to. I had it that way at first. However, I think that the combined entry is cleaner looking and feels more consistent with how the WP usually shows chapters that are reformed. And, as I mentioned, Sigma Mu Sigma details a single history of the chapter, not distinguishing it as Alpha Prime and Alpha Second'. I also did not find the division into two chapters anywhere else (although we do sometimes have to figure these things out). Did you have a source for the two Alpha chapters? Because that would totally move me to your side. I understand and appreciate your line of thought but you may be getting too deep in the weeds when tracking the outcome of the withdrawn chapters. It is quite interesting--and obviously took good research and deduction skills to figure out--but I am not convinced that it is relevant to the understanding Sigma Mu Sigma, beyond a efn which it already has. Having said that, switch it back if that truly is your preference. Rublamb (talk) 19:15, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

Yep. I discovered all that by reading through Trine (Tri-State) yearbooks and chapter histories for several fraternities as I updated this page with its list of Greek chapters: Trine University. Tri-State's mid-century accreditation problem has always interested me, and led me to update / write several articles for small nationals along the way. These would later merge into larger nationals or dissipate. The first Sigma Mu Sigma chapter was oddly persistent so I read further. The project actually took a few weeks.

It doesn't surprise me that the SMS website doesn't make a distinction, if that is the case. As a recently-dormant (?) small national they may not have the bandwidth to bother, and certainly would want to focus on a 'clean' formation story, eliding over the fact that two chapters came from the same root. The years and notes for the various Trine chapters are correct on that linked WP article. So yes, I'll add an Alpha Second listing to the SMS article. Jax MN (talk) 20:28, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

Dividing into two articles

I think we should split this off into an article for Sigma Alpha Chi/Square and Compass. There is enough content nd sources. Any objections? Rublamb (talk) 14:22, 9 March 2024 (UTC)