Talk:Siberian Traps

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This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): SophieL3, AnnikaET. Peer reviewers: Nataliezahrebelny, Jaimeejo, CuHillz.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 09:17, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Map in German

WHY??? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.12.18.129 (talk) 22:15, 11 December 2021 (UTC)

Note on Numbers

I changed the numbers to all be done in text ("5 million"). Previously some were done in scientific notation (5 x 10⁶) and some in text. Either is okay but it should be done consistently. Jdorje

What?

I had no idea what these things were, so I looked them up here. Unfortunately, this article did really clarify anything for me. Maybe this article should start off with a simple explanation of Siberian Traps and then delve into details.

When did it occur

the article does directly say the estimated date of occurrence. it only references the Permian extinction. 64.111.137.238 00:42, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Added timing. Cheers Geologyguy 00:45, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

The first item that should greet the viewer is a map of Permian Pangaea. 250 million years ago, Pangaea was a single land mass that stretched from north to south--almost from pole to pole and maybe a third as wide as Planet Earth. A map of Pangaea should be available; hate to believe one is not in the public domain. Perhaps the map on Wikipedia 'Pangaea' can be copied to here. Also, the reader should be made aware that weather was more tropical then than it is today.

Interestingly, the Siberian Traps are in the same general location now as they were 250 million years ago.

City College of San Francisco has an excellent overview of "Flood Basalt Extinctions." The Geological Society of America Bulletin November/December 2006 has an article with a map of Permian Pangaea: "Middle-Late Permian Extinction on Land" by Gregory J. Retallick, et.al.

The High School Student who engages Wikipedia should be immediately aware that Planet Earth looked very different 250 million years ago than it does today. In this day of concern over global warming, the student should learn soon that Planet Earth has gone through many climactic changes in the course of its 4.6 billion year existence. When the History Channel can present this topic with such lucidity--"The Great Dying"--then the printed page, Wikipedia, should be equally lucid, accurate, and thorough.StevenJTorrey (talk) 19:42, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Include a map of Permian Pangaea

The first item that should greet the viewer is a map of Permian Pangaea. 250 million years ago, Pangaea was a single land mass that stretched from north to south--almost from pole to pole and maybe one-third as wide as planet Earth. A map of Pangaea should be available; hate to believe one is not in the public domain. Perhaps the map on Wikipedia 'Pangaea' can be copied here. Also, the reader should be made aware that weather was more tropical then than it is today.

Interestingly, the Siberian Traps are in the same general location now as they were 250 million years ago.

City College of San Francisco has an excellent overview of "Flood Basalt Extinctons." The Geological Society of America Bulletin November/December 2006 has an article with a map of Permian Pangaea: "Middle-Late Permian Extinction on Land" by Gregory J. Retallick, et. al.

The High School student who engages Wikipedia should be immediately aware that Planet Earth looked very different 250 million years ago than it does today. In this day of concern over global warming, the student should learn that Planet Earth has gone through many climactic changes in the course of its 4.6 billion year existence. When History Channel can present this topic with such lucidity--"The Great Dying"--then the printed page, Wikipedia, should be equally lucid, accurate, and thorough.StevenJTorrey (talk) 05:46, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

I'm not convinced that climate change is all that relevant to this article's topic (which is the Traps themselves, not the Great Dying). I have added a map of Pangaea, though. -- Avenue (talk) 07:39, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

About 250 Ma, Siberia was pivoting clockwise, so that Siberia's northern & eastern coastlines were trending southwards (towards north-trending China). That pivoting plausibly involved extensional stress, thru the Siberian plate, between its boundary with Baltica, at the Urals, in the west; and its opposite ocean shores. Such extension, and resulting crustal thinning, could account for the Siberian Traps flood basalts eruptions. Meanwhile, about the same time, north China was apparently trending northwards, onto collision course with southwards spinning Siberia. Again, if north China was being pulled northwards, then extensional stresses, and crustal thinning could have occurred, accounting for the Emeishan Traps eruptions. The main map provided in the article, of the Permian period, does suggest water-ways extending into Siberia, east of the Urals; and in between north & south China. Tectonic forces, pulling Siberia south, and north China north, could have caused crustal thinning, resulting in flood basalt eruptions. 66.235.38.214 (talk) 08:07, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

Expansion

I stumbled on this page a few moments ago and, through further research, have found extensive materials in several reputable databases, primarily JSTOR. I am not, however, an authority on the subject and would not feel comfortable expanding this article or otherwise integrating my findings. If anyone here has some expertise in geology, or this specific location and events pertaining to it, but does not have university or other access to these data, I would be more than happy to supply such materials as necessary.

I've included several citations, including stable links to excerpts, available to non-subscribers. Please feel free to contact me for more information.
- Johnny$Galt (talk) 05:18, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Citations:

"Rapid Eruption of the Siberian Traps Flood Basalts at the Permo-Triassic Boundary" Paul R. Renne, Asish R. Basu Science, New Series, Vol. 253, No. 5016 (Jul. 12, 1991), pp. 176-179 Published by: American Association for the Advancement of Science Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/2878695

"Synchronism of the Siberian Traps and the Permian-Triassic Boundary" I. H. Campbell, G. K. Czamanske, V. A. Fedorenko, R. I. Hill, V. Stepanov Science, New Series, Vol. 258, No. 5089 (Dec. 11, 1992), pp. 1760-1763 Published by: American Association for the Advancement of Science Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/2880374

"Synchrony and Causal Relations Between Permian-Triassic Boundary Crises and Siberian Flood Volcanism" Paul R. Renne, Zhang Zichao, Mark A. Richards, Michael T. Black, Asis R. Basu Science, New Series, Vol. 269, No. 5229 (Sep. 8, 1995), pp. 1413-1416 Published by: American Association for the Advancement of Science Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/2888725

Range

Does it extend underwater? 99.236.221.124 (talk) 17:10, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

The traps are known to occur along part of the coasts of both the Kara and Laptev Seas, so a subsea continuation in these areas is very likely. Mikenorton (talk) 17:34, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, just asking because I don't see it on the map. Also, do you know the composition of the country rock in the area? The article isn't clear on that and my textbook barely mentions basalt. 99.236.221.124 (talk) 20:23, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Does the word "traps" come from Dutch or Swedish?

This article contains the following sentence:

"The term 'traps' is derived from the Swedish word for stairs (trappa, or sometimes trapp), referring to the step-like hills forming the landscape of the region."

However, the related article about the Deccan Traps has this sentence:

"The term 'trap', used in geology for such rock formations, is derived from the Dutch word for stairs, [1] referring to the step-like hills forming the landscape of the region." [1] The New Shorter Oxford English Dictionary, Clarendon Press, 1993

Unfortunately, I do not know Dutch or Swedish, so I would not presume to correct this discrepancy.

24.21.73.250 (talk) 08:32, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

Is it important to know? Dutch and Swedish are Germanic languages of the Indo-European languages, and neighbours. Quote I from Deccan Traps discussion: ":da:Trappe, de:Treppe, nl:Trap, no:Trapp, sv:Trappa. According to my sources it is a Scandinavian word for Stairway. --Jo (talk) 21:35, 10 September 2008 (UTC)" Quote II: "My german geological dictionary says that it is derived from a swedish miner's word (Hans Murawski: Geologisches Wörterbuch. 11. ed. Ferd. Emke Verlag, Stuttgart 2004, ISBN 978-3-827-41445-8). --Jo (talk) 20:03, 16 September 2008 (UTC)" So Avenue is right, thx ;) I still think this old word has similar pronunciation in most germanic languages, so it could be an illusion to say it is from one specific germanic language. --Chris.urs-o (talk) 08:50, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

Maybe it's not that important. But for what it's worth, the consensus among the etymologies listed here seems to be that it came from Swedish. Knowing Swedish or Dutch won't help you here; what matters is how the word first entered English. -- Avenue (talk) 13:24, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

- 'Trapp' is a Norwegian and Danish word as well. If there's no particular reason why the article says it's a Swedish word, the article might as well say it's a Germanic word or something. I mean think about it, why Swedish? Sweden don't even share borders with Russia, while Norway do. --46.9.240.116 (talk) 20:56, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

Miners' words go way back; as someone interested, I'd like to know the oldest known usage, OED style- Philip A. Rutter (talk) 23:31, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

Who discovered traps?

It is widely recognised that Polish geologist Aleksander Czekanowski (Chekanovsky) discovered the Siberian Traps during his expeditions to northern and eastern Siberia in the 1870’s. - please add it Source: http://www.le.ac.uk/gl/ads/SiberianTraps/History%20of%20Research.htm — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.150.156.163 (talk) 17:14, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

related to antarctic meteor?

link back to Wilkes Land Crater which links here? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.87.130.113 (talk) 06:14, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Impact on prehistoric life

The "Impact on prehistoric life" section consists almost entirely of a description of the Permian/Triassic extinction event and its aftermath, and virtually nothing about HOW the Siberian Traps may have caused or contributed to that event. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 160.111.254.17 (talk) 19:42, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

Whoo! Eight years later and this section is still irrelevant! 184.175.3.22 (talk) 16:25, 18 March 2022 (UTC)

How far did the lava spread?

Has anyone estimate how much of Siberia was originally covered with lava? Of cause, after 250 million years much of it has eroded away. But the holes through which it once erupted should still be there. It should be possible to calculate how far the lava spread from these. Has anyone actually done that?

2015-01-03 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.

Peer Review

Ending with Impacts One suggestion may be to switch the impacts on prehistoric life with the final section. The impacts could act as a conclusion or even wrap up the article. Leave the reader with the important information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by CuHillz (talk • contribs) 06:05, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

Still active as Hawaiian hot spot?

A pundit holding forth about the geology of Hawaii suggested looking at a sea floor map such as Google Maps and noting that Hawaii is the end of a long chain of undersea volcanoes including Midway Atoll and starting near the western end of the Bering sea, and as such is has rightful claim to continuity with the Siberian Traps eruptions, unlike Iceland, which is mentioned in the article as if there was a connection. 199.83.58.196 (talk) 22:12, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

Have there been studies done about it? As you frame it now, it sounds too much like original research--Mr Fink (talk) 23:25, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

Definition given for "trophic levels" is wrong

"Over time a small portion of the life that survived the extinction was able to repopulate and expand starting with low trophic levels (local communities) until the higher trophic levels (large habitats) were able to be re-established."

This is from a Chinese paper, and likely was goofed in translation. "Trophic level" has nothing to do with size of a community, i.e. local vs. large habitat; but has to do with who is eating whom. Only.

Low trophic level- alga; primary producer. One level up; algae eaters. One level up; big fish that are eating little fish. One level up; fish eagles, that are eating big predatory fish.

Somebody needs to re-write; not sure how you want it. Lots of speculation; but needed good low trophic level abundance and diversity to support predators, etc; and higher biodiversity.

This is Ecology 101, folks. ˜˜˜˜ Philip A. Rutter (talk) 23:25, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

Timing and number

Hallo dear geologists,

the introduction says:

"The massive eruptive event (only one?) that formed the traps is one of the largest known volcanic events in the last 500 million years."

In the article Late Devonian extinction in the paragraph Volcanic activity it says:

"The end of the Devonian Period had extremely widespread trap magmatism and rifting in the Russian and Siberian platforms, which were situated above the hot mantle plumes and suggested as a cause of the Frasnian / Famennian and end-Devonian extinctions. The Viluy and Pripyat-Dnieper-Donets large igneous provinces were suggested to correlate with the Frasnian / Famennian extinction and the Kola and Timan-Pechora magmatism was suggested to correspond to the end Devonian-Carboniferous extinction."

This doesn't seem to be consistent with the next sentence in the introduction here:

"The eruptions continued for roughly two million years and spanned the Permian–Triassic boundary, or P–T boundary, which occurred around 251.9 million years ago."

Could someone please make it clearer how many events and the respective times. I won't do it, am no expert on this field. Sciencia58 (talk) 19:01, 18 December 2021 (UTC)