Talk:Shortnin' Bread

Not a Traditional Plantation Song?!

The history section is internally illogical. It has a white poet from Iowa as the original writer of the song in 1900, and then a folklorist collects it in the field in Tennessee in 1912. Huh? 12 years is a short time for a song to go from a book to a folk song to be collected by anthropologists. And the collected version has lyrics similar to the modern lyrics. Obviously this was a folk song all along, and the poet may have added some original lyrics. Either add a source to the "not a plantation song" or delete the claim. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.158.9.214 (talk) 04:22, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

As I read more about plantation food, it occurs to me that this was a white persons song, although it may be related to plantation life, that was sung in the slave dialect, like minstrely, which made fun of blacks. What someone else said below about slaves bread being made of corn meal as well as the probable use of the word "mammy" as opposed to "mamma" would indicate that the song is making fun of black children who would not have been able to have white flour shortbread shortened with butter and sweetened. Naamli (talk) 19:35, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

Maytime, 1937

The main article cites this film.
However, the IMDb's soundtrack listing makes no mention of the song.
Neither does this longer plot synopsis.
Is Maytime the correct Nelson Eddy film?
Varlaam (talk) 14:36, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Al Jolson

I'm not aware that Al Jolson recorded the song. It's possible that he did, though I don't know that it would be considered as being part of his popular output. I'd be interested to know if there's a currently-available recording, if it's certain that he did record it.

Puckety (talk) 03:17, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

I have not been able to verify that Jolson every recorded the song. I left his name on the list with a "citation needed tag", but I'm leaning toward thinking that it's a song that he never did.

If anyone has a reference for Jolson performing this tune, feel free to provide it.

74.95.43.253 (talk) 21:23, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Screen Song short cartoon 1948

The bread sings this song in this Famous Studios Production animated short. Don't know anything else about the short but it probably should be added.

--JoelSherrill (talk) 21:08, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

Non-PC variant

At http://www.archive.org/details/CompleteBroadcastDay you can find the whole day of Sept. 21, 1939 recorded and translated to modern MP3s. Within there (I apologize I've forgotten when specifically) is the Shortnin' Bread song, but using the now very non-PC lyrics: "Mammy's little darkies". How times have changed. :| —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.226.59.203 (talk) 05:53, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

The Viscounts version

The Viscounts also did this song, but I'm not sure when. It's kind of a jazzed-up version much different than the version my Dad sang to us when I was a kid. 72.86.42.38 (talk) 20:36, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

The way I heard it.

This is the only way way I ever heard it:

Three little darkies lying in bed

Two was sick an' the other 'most dead. Send for the doctor, the doctor said,

"Feed dose darkies on short'nin bread!" [[1]]

—Pawyilee (talk) 14:08, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

The Paul Robeson version of this verse follows this - (with "chillun" for "darkies"). Actually my old mum quite unselfconsciously used the "N" word!) - as someone said a different world!. She heard "'most" as "was", as someone from England naturally would - if only because we don't say "'most" for "almost". Anyway - I am changing the article to reflect this. --Soundofmusicals (talk) 10:37, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

Food redirect

There is currently mention of a food redirect at the top of the article which suggests Shortbread. Shortnin bread is not the same as shortbread so that suggestion is probably confusing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Anigel (talk • contribs) 19:04, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

I agree. Shortening bread obviously was eaten by poor people, and the butter, sugar, etc, in shortbread would make it too costly to be the same product. But the article needs a reliable source to specify exactly what shortening bread actually is. I'm going to tag the current unsourced but credible definition as needing a ref, and I'm going to change the hatnote to indicate clearly that only the name is similar to shortbread. —104.244.192.86 (talk) 19:33, 20 October 2017 (UTC)

I agree also. I still have no idea what the stuff is.

After years of accepting this is one I am wondering if it really needs a citation, if we are going to keep it at all! Is the word "shortbread" defined as the commercially baked "Danish" variety? Surely home baked shortbread "cookies" or biscuits are baked to all kind of recipe, depending on the ingredients the cook prefers (or can afford). The overall or defining characteristic of the stuff is sweet and "short", regardless of the actual cereal the flour is made from, or the fat or oil used for the shortening. Or am I being obtuse? --Soundofmusicals (talk) 07:22, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

I placed this reply above but think I should place it here as well as it is about the food that is being referred to which I think is what some southerners call "shortnin bread" but we would call shortbread:

As I read more about plantation food, it occurs to me that this was a white persons song, although it may be related to plantation life, that was sung in the slave dialect, like minstrely, which made fun of blacks. What someone else said below about slaves bread being made of corn meal, as well as the probable use of the word "mammy" as opposed to "mamma," would indicate that the song is making fun of black children who would not have been able to have white flour shortbread shortened with butter and sweetened. Naamli (talk) 19:39, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

Why I removed the section on the Beach Boys

Wikipedia tagged this article as needing trivia removed and this section veered off the topic of the song itself. Their released recording of it was added to the chronological list of other renditions and I'll add the information from this section to their article. Oona Wikiwalker (talk) 23:49, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

i re-added most of the section - as i said in edit history its about the most relevant the song has ever gotten, and so wouldn't really complete without a more developed section i think anyway 86.186.54.245 (talk) 09:01, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

Traditional Lyrics - "Two Little N***** Lyin' in Bed..."

"Shortnin’ Bread was a song that originated in the 1800s. It was a plantation song about slaves.

There is no hard evidence of this.

The original lyrics were blatantly racist, and they were recorded by John Avery Lomax. Since then the lyrics have been changed, but it’s important to know the history especially since this song today is portrayed as a happy dance tune. If you are curious, you can find the original lyrics on this website: http://www.traditionalmusic.co.uk/folk-song-lyrics/Shortenin_Bread.htm. I was sad to see that the history of the song isn’t well known or easy to access. I was also surprised that the lyrics were changed to cover up racism, and no one acknowledges the original lyrics, so very few people know the true history of the song; the only know it as a square dance tune or a children’s song." - Giri Peters 108.28.185.171 (talk) 00:18, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

No one has ever definitively traced this song to before 1900, when it was published as a poem by James Whitcomb Riley. Lomax recorded it in 1961.

Since it had been in print since 1900, and recorded in musical form numerous times (East Tennessee Mountain Whites, 1912; John Riley Dykes, 1927; Jaques Wolfe, 1928; Lawrence Tibbett, 1937; Andrews Sisters, 1938; Fred Huffer, 1939; Fats Waller, 1941) it's not surprising that Lomax found it floating around in 1961.

Lomax was notoriously sloppy in his attribution notes, and also known to occasionly invent "historical" details. In the 61 years between Riley and Lomax the lyrics might have undergone any number of changes, and any claim to Lomax's version as being the "original" lyrics is highly suspect.

74.95.43.253 (talk) 01:20, 7 June 2024 (UTC)