Talk:Sheeple/Archives/2014

POV

This article perhaps deserves to exist for the purpose of defining a common term, but the content itself is atrocious. Rarely have I seen an article so far from a neutral POV, or so poorly written. It looks like some kid wrote a joke page on geocities and pasted it here.

Obvious issues:

a) As a political term it is not specific to Republicans. Just to insert a counterargument for why this is so, I would suggest that the anti-Bush crowd qualifies as sheeple if anyone does, as they endlessly repeat the same tired jokes, the same tired arguments, and essentially "do what everyone else is doing" while imagining themselves to be unique. That's my POV of course, and I don't suggest it belongs in the article, but it stands to reason that as that doesn't belong in the article, neither does a specifically anti-Republican POV. If either POV is expressed, it should be in context of "popular usage denotes it this way" and not as a statement of fact.

b) It is in fact used as a common derogatory term for religionists, especially Christians, a fact missing from the article. That's entirely neutral POV, since it is a common way the term is used. However, it should be stated that this is popular usage, not fact, i.e. "Popularly used to describe Christians" instead of "Christians are sheeple." See the first point above.

c) Content is far out of line with Wikipedia standards. "Sheeple are more hardcore sheople" is absurb phrasing and has no place in Wikipedia, just to use one example. Also the personal definition of "Shadow Walker" has no relevance to the definition by popular usage, and in fact it is entirely unclear why this person is named since they are not a notable figure and clearly did not coin the term.

I might personally work on this article after I get done with some of my other projects because I'd like it to remain, but in its present form it would be better off deleted entirely. This is an embarassment to Wikipedia. --Lvthn13 22:25, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

I couldn't stand to look at this anymore so I cleaned it up. Feel free to add to it, but refrain from making POV statements or adding content not acceptable to Wikipedia standards. --Lvthn13 22:39, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

This is a derogatory term, but an encyclopedia needs to document derogatory terms. I came here looking to see if this word only came from a few websites. Apparently, it is in wider use. Bostoner (talk) 02:37, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

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"It also rhymes with "steeple," and can be used as an attack against Christians, who often refer to themselves as "flocks." Jesus himself said 'I am the good shepherd'."

^ This is absolute hateful bigotry akin to "achtung Juden",please correct it.This kind of crap has no place in an encyclopedia or anywhere else.Come on people.

That particular sentence, or the entire entry? Jesus also referred to himself as a "fisher of men", also giving the possible impression that his followers were easily reeled in. It's not hateful bigotry as so much as a tap on the shoulder to encourage people to think for themselves. How can you compare what is effectively calling a group of people closed-minded to a hateful threat of violence?

^ Well,encyclopedias should define and explain a word or topic without being biased to the point where the definition is singling out a specific group and calling for people to attack that group.I don't care what your views of Christianity are or how that is colored by your political views.If you disagreed politically say with Israel in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict does that mean that you would include the sentence:"Achtung Juden can be used as an attack against the Jews" in your definition of Judaism? Gosh,I hope not! Geez,be cool people.

I don't think the idea of Jesus reeling in his followers would hold much water. Jesus was a carpenter, and it's unlikely that a carpenter living in Palestine during the first century A.D. would know how to make use of advanced fishing equipment that hadn't been invented yet. :-D

-Firestorm

It certainly wouldn't hold much water if, after reeling them in, he put them in a net. Regardless of the carpenter/wooden thing, it seems to be full of holes. --Izzit 2014 June 12th — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:2422:2379:6831:CBDB:B873:B1BF (talk) 01:58, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

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I've come across a reference - in a salon.com article, http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2000/06/28/kakutani/ - to the word having been coined by HL Mencken. It would be wonderful if this were true, but I've not found anything to back it up as yet. Anyone else? (Dougald, 2/10/05)

Bob Marley uses the term in his song, "Jah Live". It does not appear to be a disparaging term in the context of his song.

I thought the term was used to define everyone, not just Christians, who was not illuminati

^Exactly why the popular usage amongst conspiracy theorists should be mentioned. And yes, there are problems with tone here that make me believe the article was written by some NWO conspiracy theorist. I have no idea how this received protection. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.210.88.228 (talk) 12:08, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

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Over-usage

On the internet I usually come across sheeple being used by conspiracy theorists (political or otherwise) or by those whose political activism seems to begin & end with casting that insult. The first usage is irritating but it is the correct usage within the minds of the theorists. With the latter the term is often used incorrectly (they're actually reflecting public opinion) and hence with some irony; I think it would be accurate to say that they expect other people to speak out in public. I don't know the best way to add this into the existing page - should I extend or add to the existing "The term is also...conformist" line or form a new paragraph - nor do I trust myself to wholly rein in the sarcasm to a neutral POV. Any suggestions? (Flookie, 15/Jul/11) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Flookie (talk • contribs) 15:02, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

Hoplophobes

I found that article talking about fear of guns, and to a lesser extent authorities, but err, I never saw anything saying it can be construed to a fear of minorities. The word itself etymologically relates to a fear of weapons. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.20.146.223 (talk) 07:14, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Possibly. But in this context, it may be construed as a fear of armed citizenry (ref Hoplites). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:2422:2379:6831:CBDB:B873:B1BF (talk) 02:02, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

Michael Savage Claims Coinage

Michael Savage claimed that he coined the word "sheeple", as heard on 10/23/2008. Is it notable when famous people claim, falsely if the entry is correct, to be originators? Perhaps, he helped popularize the word to some degree? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.159.45.29 (talk) 06:14, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

It may be neither notable nor even relevant to mention that he changed his name from Weiner to Savage, that he stands 5ft 4 inches tall, or that he is a noted right-wing talk show host. But I have done it anyway. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:2422:2379:6831:CBDB:B873:B1BF (talk) 02:07, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

panurge

you may read (and link) "moutons de Panurge", in french wikipedia, or "Panurge" in english. you'll see that sheeple's notion can be traced back to french Renaissance.

a.sorel —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.206.162.141 (talk) 17:44, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes, clearly the idea of likening people to sheep occurred only once in human history, during the French Renaissance. It would be impossible to conceive of any Good Shepherd. --Saforrest (talk) 03:28, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Umm. . .the shepard is the person who takes care of the sheep. Calling someone a Good Shepard is likening them to Christ (not sheep) who is the Good Shepard of all mankind. But I do get what you're saying, people have been referred to as sheep on more than one occasion both before and after the French Renaissance. But I think the point the guy was trying to make was that George Orwell's Animal Farm is not the antecedent of humans being likened to sheep.Malke 2010 (talk) 02:31, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Well maybe not in the Bible, but in that famous Easter song about Christ, Händel's Messiah, it does say "Are we like sheep?" Also, if Christ is a shepherd, doesn't that make his followers sheep? Bostoner (talk) 02:37, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Well, one is a simile and the other is a metaphor. I guess they could be metaphorically similar to woolly things. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:2422:2379:6831:CBDB:B873:B1BF (talk) 02:11, 13 June 2014 (UTC)