Talk:Severance Hall

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This article has previously been nominated to be moved. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination.

Discussions:

Not moved, 30 September 2021, from Severance Hall to Severance Music Center, see discussion.
Not moved, 15 November 2021, from Severance Hall to Severance Music Center, see discussion.
Not moved, 21 April 2023, from Severance Hall to Severance Music Center, see discussion.

Untitled

I removed this sentence because the building was not designed in the neo-classic style- it is based on some Florentine Plazzo [or something]

i also had to remove the Public Auditorium because it as also designed in an Italian renaissance style, and was not a Walker and Weeks building, rather Walker [alone] was a consulting architect on the project. I'll try and find a couple more W&W neo-classical works to replace them with. Carptrash 07:17, 17 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

wait wait, can someone check that 'mr. severance died before groundbreaking?' there are pictures of him in cleveland orchestra programs actually in that ceremony... so i'm not sure as to the accuracy of that. (11 march, 2006)

You're right. I went on a tour of SH today, and he was around for both groundbreaking and its first performance. Fixed. Spamguy 02:54, 13 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Odd sentence

From the article: The new shell consisted of thick walls filled with sand up to a height of six or eight feet and a surface of curves faced with hardwood. There has to be a better way to say this. I haven't been in SH in decades so I can't speak to the visual look of the shell (which I guess is now gone anyway, eh?) but maybe someone who has can address this. --Wspencer11 (talk to me...) 12:48, 15 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It is poorly written, although the information is correct. I'll see what I can do to clean it up.THD3 13:29, 15 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I deleted the previous clunky cut-and-paste sentence and wrote a new passage with a reference to a technical article about Severance Hall's acoustics. Hope this is better.-Markhh 05:19, 17 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Some discussion of the seating layout would be really useful -- especially what is meant by "Dress Circle" -- is this a section where people really dress up (??), is it named after someone named "Dress" (???) or why is it called that? Are the "Sides" good? How bad are the first 4 rows that are really cheap tickets? How good/bad is the upper balcony? Are there any bad seats or are they really all good seats? Thanks to someone! 75.72.47.128 02:43, 25 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hmmm. This might be difficult to delineate without lapsing into POV. I can tell you from personal experience, the seats in the top section of the balcony are painfully tiny.THD3 12:46, 25 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Picture of the Foyer

The picture of the Bogomolny-Kozerefski Grand Foyer was incorrectly referred to as the "front lobby" in the caption, so I changed it to its correct title. Also, a more attractive picture of the foyer would be nice. JEN9841 (talk) 06:27, 15 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Szell Shell

While the old shell certainly contrasted with the interior of the rest of the auditorium, I disagree that it "clashed." This term is extremely subjective. I found that the old shell was elegant rather than "severe" and that it complimented the interior. In my opinion the new shell is kitschy and clashes with the old interior. It's both far too busy and deviates from the organization established by the design of the original auditorium. Even if, stylistically, it's more similar, it's not a perfect match. I would compare it to the difference between blue and red and two clashing tones of blue. But that's my opinion and it's subjective. It does not belong in the article any more than saying that the Szell Shell was severe and clashing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.58.3.247 (talk) 10:19, 10 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Requested move 30 September 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved.

WP:NAMECHANGES applies. The proposal does not provide any evidence, or even suggest, that RSs routinely use the new name.(non-admin closure) Havelock Jones (talk) 13:34, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Severance Hall → Severance Music Center – Reliable sources are reporting on the new name (example) but give no time frame for the name change. Mapsax (talk) 20:56, 30 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

As with the Cleveland Indians/Cleveland Guardians move, we should wait until the change has actually taken place.THD3 (talk) 11:11, 2 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The thing is, I can't tell from that and other sources whether the name change is effective immediately. "Will" implies future of course but it also could be interpreted as "henceforth". Mapsax (talk) 23:39, 2 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. It's been called Severance Hall for nearly a century. No reason to change it any time soon. WP:OFFICIALNAME. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:27, 6 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Name change

The name change to Severance Music Center is a done deal, it's just about the timing. Here is a RS using the new name, still ambiguous as to whether the change has happened. Here is the official (primary source) press release, also ambiguous. "The name of the Orchestra's building will change from Severance Hall to Severance Music Center." I'd like to reopen the RM but I don't see any clear instructions nor a time window in the guidelines. Mapsax (talk) 23:18, 13 October 2021 (UTC) [Edit] Another RS using the new name Mapsax (talk) 23:24, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I recommend that you wait 6 months, for two reasons. Firstly, this period is likely to be accepted by the community as sufficiently long after the previous RM for the subject to be reopened. Secondly, there will then have been sufficient time to see whether the name change is adopted by RSs generally. We don't follow WP:OFFICIALNAME. Many times, when a building officially changes its name, that name then becomes its common name, but sometimes the building continues to be referred to by its old name. Our policy is not to move articles until it is clear the new name has wide acceptance. Havelock Jones (talk) 09:25, 14 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not interpreting WP:OFFICIALNAME the same way. At minimum the new name should be identified in the History section, which I just did. Mapsax (talk) 02:08, 15 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 15 November 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved (closed by non-admin page mover) Calidum 17:12, 22 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Severance Hall → Severance Music Center – [2nd request] Google searches using the old and new names shows RSs consistently using the new name; the old name mostly shows up in old webpages and mirrors to this article. Mapsax (talk) 22:49, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

No. Local media outlets are still referring to the building as Severance Hall. All those items were published this month. - Eureka Lott 02:06, 16 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. As per the RM last month. It is really not acceptable to continue proposing changes until you get the result you want. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:37, 17 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Conditions appeared to me to have changed since the closure of the first RM which is why I reintroduced it. But this seems to be WP:SNOWBALL now so I'm going to let this RM run its course without contest. Mapsax (talk) 23:41, 17 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 21 April 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) – Material Works 18:28, 28 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Severance Hall → Severance Music Center – In 2021, The Cleveland Orchestra announced the renaming of "Severance Hall" to "Severance Music Center" (https://www.clevelandorchestra.com/press-resources/press-releases/2021-releases/2021-09-30-mandel-foundation-historic-grant/). All 2023 press releases so far indicate "Severance Music Center" (https://www.clevelandorchestra.com/press-resources/press-releases/2023-releases/), and the "about" sections no longer say "Severance Hall" (https://www.clevelandorchestra.com/discover/severance/). Other sites have also updated their listing to reflect the name change (https://www.clevescene.com/cleveland/severance-music-center/Location?oid=1432086). As of last year, the local press have respected the name change (https://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/2022/09/cleveland-orchestras-severance-music-center-season-offers-a-treasure-trove-of-classical-music-offerings-for-northeast-ohio-2022-preview.html). Non-local press have switched, too (https://seenandheard-international.com/2023/02/klaus-makela-on-his-return-to-cleveland-excels-in-most-of-the-program/). Archivist1918 (talk) 17:48, 21 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per previous two RMs. It's an historic building which has had this name for nearly a century, and being an historic building is the only reason it has an article at all. This looks like a marketing-linked request which wants us to get on board with the rebranding. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:24, 25 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.