Talk:Seven Sisters (Moscow)

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translating names

I don't know if Wiki has any guidelines on translating geographical names vs. transliterating them - but I think that unless there's already an established name, transliteration is the way to go. Thus, I suggest that we don't translate the words like "naberezhnaja" as "embarkment" (especially given that the word "embarkment" is not really used in English this way either), just as we don't translate words like "avenue" when spelling foreign names in Russian. Azov

Here is the convention I propose (loosely based on AP style guidelines and reference book Иностранные имена и названия в русском тексте: Справочник. / Гиляревский Р. С., Старостин Б. А. I know that the book talks about using foreign names in Russian texts, but I think the basic principles and rationales are the same in English). Azov 20:25, 20 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Firstly, you seem to confuse embankment with embarkment. Secondly, whatever Soviet books are saying, you may check any guidebook: they don't use "Tverskaya ulitsa", they use "Tverskaya street", for toponyms should be understood by foreigners. I can imagine a poor foreigner struggling to pronounce "naberezhnaya" ;) --Ghirlandajo 21:08, 20 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Yep, of course I meant embankment :-) And you're right that "naberezhnaja" is hard to pronounce, but so is "Kotelnicheskaya". Should we call it something like "Boilermakers Embankment" instead? And if we do so - would anyone be able to guess what we're referring to? Or find it on a Russian-language map? Or even on an English-lenguage map that uses a different naming style? I don't think so. Russian words are generally not easy for an English speaker, they've got to live with that :)

I actually checked a whole shelf of guidebooks in a local bookstore - some of the books transliterate "common" parts of proper names, some translate, most use a mixture of both.

But the problem with "mixture" approach on Wikipedia is that there are many ways to translate the same name, and different people do it differently - resulting in a mess that we currently have. Take Poklonnaya Gora for example: is it Poklonnaya Hill, Poklonnaya Mountain, or maybe Bow-down Hill (and I'm sure one can come up with a dozen of other reasonable variants). Thus, I'm trying to propose a consistent style. The tricky part there is figuring out whether a "common" word (like street, embankment, etc.) is part of a proper name or not. Sometimes it's clear: if you can't take the word out, it's definitely a part of the name (i.e. in Ulitsa 1905 Goda - you can't take out the word Ulitsa), but in cases like Kotelnicheskaya it's not that obvious. In such cases proper capitalization is the key. I think that Kotelnicheskaya Naberezhnaya, Kotelnicheskaya embankment, and Kotelnicheskaya Naberezhnaya embankment are all ok, but Kotelnicheskaya Embankment is not. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Azov (talk • contribs) 22:38, 20 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Do you mean "Koteliniki Embankment is not"? I agree that "Kotelniki Embankment" is too much Englishing on my part. Kotelnicheskaya Embankment is fine for me. There is no need to keep "naberezhnaya" in English, as there is an equivalent English word. --Ghirlandajo 23:40, 20 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Well, there's an eqivalent English word for kotelniki too - boilermakers. My point is that we should either translate the whole name (which is not a very good idea for the reasons mentioned above), or not translate it at all. So, I believe that both, "Kotelniki Embankment" and "Kotelnicheskaya Embankment" are poorly choosen names, while "Kotelnicheskaya embankment" is fine. The difference is subtle, but important: in the latter case the word "embankment" is not part of the name (so, it's not capitalized). The name is just Kotelnicheskaya, and the word "embankment" is used to disambiguate or provide context where needed. Do you think that makes sense? Azov 08:34, 21 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry I don't. Embankment is имя нарицательное, so it should be translated. Kotelnicheskaya is имя собственное, so it should be kept as it is. --Ghirlandajo 08:50, 21 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Гм, ладно, кроме нас тут всё равно никого нет, так что можно и по-русски :-) Есть два варианта. Можно считать, что в словосочетании "Котельническая набережная" слово "Котельническая" - это, собственно, и есть название набережной, и оно - имя собственное. А слово "набережная" - соответственно, нарицательное. Тогда в переводе на английский мы получим "Kotelnicheskaya embankment" (заметь, что в этом случае embankment надо писать с маленькой буквы). Альтернативно, можно считать что "Котельническая набережная" - это неделимый топоним, включающий оба слова. Примерно как в названии улицы Кузнецкий мост слово "мост" - не имя нарицательное, а составная часть имени собственного. В этом варианте слово "набережная" не переводится. Оба варианта нормальные, но в зависимости от того, какой выбрать - использоваться название будет по-разному. Согласен? Azov 21:35, 21 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Коллеги, чего тут обсуждать, если имеют место две грубых ошибки: "Высотка МПС" названа башней Минтяжпрома, которая должна была стать как раз восьмой высоткой на месте гостиницы "Россия", а Дворец советов никак не собирался становиться 8-й башней, а должен был стать самостоятельной архитектурной единицей! --217.21.17.34 13:52, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Similar Sructures

It seem that there are two building similar outside russia one in Warsaw and the other one in Bucharest. http://66.249.93.104/search?q=cache:8HPVNB_pKhUJ:skyscraperpage.com/cities/%3FbuildingID%3D30446+Casa+Presei&hl=en http://skyscraperpage.com/cities/?buildingID=1117 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.230.195.1 (talk • contribs) 17:13, 17 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Eighth tower

Having seen pictures of the abandoned Palace of the Soviets, let me get this straight: were there TWO "eighth sister" projects, one in the 30s and another in the 50s? That tower looks a bit like the Palace, but there's no Lenin statue atop. Darth Sidious 16:18, 10 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

See last edition --217.21.17.34 20:10, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's not that the building would have overshadowed the Kremlin (everyone knew it would), it's that the foundation (on the bank of the river) proved unsuitable for a structure that size. Alas, I don't have a source handy. Rklawton 21:05, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Baroque Kremlin towers

Is there any source that Kremlin towers built in baroque style?--Nixer 12:14, 14 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"Wedding-cake style"

I think this is often called Wedding-cake style". AnonMoos 15:16, 29 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Creepy hearsay

When I was in Moscow, I heard that some of the Seven Sisters buildings still have water leaking from fixtures attached to the wall, and that there were allegations of gulag workers being buried inside the walls - are there any sources to back these stories up? --Tomhannen 00:42, 5 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've never heard about it, although I live in Moscow and Stalin architecture is my special interest. Especially about buried allegations — almost for sure, that it's dismal legend only... Askold (talk) 22:58, 3 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It's true, sometimes you still can hear how these buried people knock in the wall. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.165.173.131 (talk) 07:26, 29 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Picture problems

This site needs LOTS of editing. The pics are out of order! Darth Sidious 23:40, 6 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Working on it. I made some changes (putting pics in galleries) which I think make it better, but not perfect yet. ...Perhaps some picediting veterans could help? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Natebjones (talk • contribs) 19:31, 24 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

pseudo-Russian ornaments

pseudo-Russian ornaments mimicking Alexey Shchusev's Kazansky Rail Terminal

This seems very strange as Kazansky Rail Terminal was decorated in Tatar, not Russian style.--Dojarca 11:59, 29 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Kiev, Bucharest, Riga, Chelyabinsk, Voronezh, Shanghai...

The point to hold in mind is that every sizable Soviet city has its share of tall Stalinesque buildings, but that does not make it appropriate to mention all of them on this page. The buildings in Bucharest and Kiev, in particular, are not scyscrapers and have little in common with this particular variety of Stalinist architecture. --Ghirla^-трёп- 16:46, 31 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Introduction facts

The introduction seems to have unclear facts. It states that the buildings were built by British immigrants in the 1980s-90s but the buildings were built in the late 40s-50. Please help! Wiki Roxor (talk) 18:52, 12 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Um, WikiRoxor, you re-introduced the claim that the buildings were built by British immigrants while correcting the grammar. I've taken out the word "built," which as you say can't be right. It would be good to get a source for the claim that the name comes from British immigrants.VoluntarySlave (talk) 01:13, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oops! sorry about that! But there is still some need for clarification of facts regarding the naming.Wiki Roxor (talk) 15:14, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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Why seven sisters?

AFAIK, almost nobody calls them "seven sisters" in Moscow or in Russia.

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