Talk:Berkadzor

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On 7 January 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved to Settlement near Sovkhoz No. 2 of Garsharabtrest. The result of the discussion was not moved.

Requested move 7 January 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) – Hilst [talk] 01:09, 15 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Berkadzor → Settlement near Sovkhoz No. 2 of Garsharabtrest – before the conflict in Soviet period it was Settlement near Sovkhoz No. 2 of Garsharabtrest. Currently this localty moved back under Azerbaijan control and according to the Azerbaijan administrative division there was never "Berkadzor village". That is why I suggest to rename the paper to its old official name. Zohrab javad (talk) 20:46, 7 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Azerbaijan has been notified of this discussion. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 00:03, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Armenia has been notified of this discussion. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 00:03, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Artsakh has been notified of this discussion. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 00:04, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. Not the WP:COMMONNAME and too wordy. Also, @Zohrab javad why did you move the page without any consensus? sawyer * he/they * talk 01:48, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Moving was just mistake. After that I couldn’t undo back. Could you do it if it is possible? Zohrab javad (talk) 05:52, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yep! I've already moved it back to Berkadzor. Thanks for your understanding :) sawyer * he/they * talk 05:55, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not COMMONNAME for whom? There is not the locality called “village of Berkadzor” and it never existed officially. The name of “village of Berkadzor” was used only by unrecognised NKR and it also doesn’t exist anymore. If suggested name is too wordy, then it can be shortened e.g. “Garsharabtrest sovxoz No 2” - it is not the current officially name used by Azerbaijan authorities. Of course if consensus position so that the current name must be used, then this article can be merged with Khojaly because currently this area is part of the Urban administrative district of the town of Khojaly of Khojaly District. Zohrab javad (talk) 06:08, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's not how COMMONNAME works; please read the linked policy. Google pulls up over 1700 search results for "Berkadzor" and only 3 results for "Settlement near Sovkhoz No. 2 of Garsharabtrest", 2 of which are Wikipedia and one of which is unrelated to the village. "Berkadzor" is also the name used in coverage of the Berkadzor fuel depot explosion; look at the cited sources and what they call the village. The more commonly-used name of the village takes precedence over an official name with almost zero recognition. There's also no reason to merge the article with Khojaly, but that would be a different procedural discussion. sawyer * he/they * talk 06:27, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I searched from Google for "Berkadzor" - about 1350 results, and I would say they mostly are either Armenia-related website, or the other websites (maps, weather etc) mostly probably referring to Wikipedia. There is no significant number of news, historical, cultural sources, - and this is understandable because it is little-known, little-significant place and so in my opinion the principle of COMMONNAME is difficult-applicable in this case.

I also looked at the article Berkadzor fuel depot explosion. First, the references used there - only 1 of them uses the name of "Berkadzor" - as you can check, this source uses this name just once in whole article, but not directly in the article text but as a legend for photo (by the way this legend writes "Stepanakert-Askera highway" though it is not Askera, it is Askeran - again mistake).

Second, the article of Berkadzor fuel depot explosion says about a time when unrecognised NKR just recently lost control over the locality. Therefor, mention of toponym of "Berkadzor" in name of the article Berkadzor fuel depot explosion is not a reason to leave this name forever as a name of the article generally about the locality. We can compare it as an analogy with the articles of Battle of Stalingrad, Volgograd Oblast and Volgograd - the article which is about the Battle says "Stalingrad" because at the time this happened it was Stalingrad, but currently there are Volgograd Oblast and the city of Volgograd that is why the articles about the places themselves say "Volgograd". Zohrab javad (talk) 12:41, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, Berkadzor is an obscure village, but that doesn't mean COMMONNAME isn't applicable, and if the majority of the web results are Armenia-related, then using the Armenian name is fine. Plenty of Nagorno-Karabakh articles use the Armenian name as decided by consensus, and some others use the Azerbaijani name, depending on which is more common in third-party sources. sawyer * he/they * talk 14:10, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I suppose you now that the political situation in Karabakh has changed radically. On the one hand, current name of "Berkadzor" can be assessed as an article about non-existent locality. On the other hand, there was not consensus for this article case (we are trying to do it in this discussion), but in my opinion of course due to the situation change, the consensuses of all previously disputed names in Karabakh shall be reconsidered (but this is another topic). Zohrab javad (talk) 14:34, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Azerbaijan has been notified of this discussion. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 11:50, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Armenia has been notified of this discussion. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 11:50, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Artsakh has been notified of this discussion. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 11:51, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.