Talk:Serbs/InfoboxImages

Pre-Discussion

There has been some disagreements regarding the images in the infobox. It seems so far (reviewing past discussions), there is an undisputed consensus for the inclusion of Nikola Tesla, Karađorđe, Vuk Karadžić and Saint Sava. We're starting from scratch. There is no consensus on how many persons. How are we going to reach consensus? Should we vote? Let's say we have a total 8/16 persons, and each user chooses 12/24 notable people, so we'll see the most popular ones, or we carefully discuss each individual that an user puts forward (Comparison, POV risk). Take a look at 100 најзнаменитијих Срба as well. Let's talk.--Zoupan 07:54, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

I agree about Nikola Tesla, Karađorđe, Vuk Karadžić and Saint Sava. Although I think the sanitisation approach of the pictures of notable Germans should be avoided on the basis of WP:NPOV. I mean, how come Adolf Hitler isn't there? Kaiser Wilhelm II? Of course, there are many Serbs to be proud of, such as Tesla, Karađorđe, Vuk Karadžić etc but also some that are very notable Serbs but not necessarily to be proud of, or that are at least more controversial. Some are very notable but perhaps controversial Serbs that could be included in a gallery are "Weird Al" Yankovic, Draža Mihailović, Vesna Vulović, Slobodan Milošević, Svetozar Miletić, Radovan Karadžić and Ratko Mladić. Peacemaker67 (talk) 12:22, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

I actually really like Zoupan's latest revision of the infobox. Everything is flawless except that I believe that Jovan Vladimir must be added. I also do not see why it is necessary to have Vidić, I mean Dragan Džajić, Dragan Stojković and Vladimir Petrović were all much better football players and besides very few people will actually remember who Nemanja Vidić was in ten or fifteen years, he only captained Manchester United very briefly and has not played in almost a year for the club because of injury. Dučić is a notable Serb but he is not too notable. What should we do about this? 23 editor (talk) 15:01, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

@Peacemaker - I don't support any of your examples. Who do you want in? @23 Editor - The thing about Vidić is that he is contemporary, and has incredible honours; Dragan Džajić and Dragan Stojković are true legends, but there's not room for all. I think Divac and Nole are given, and we can't have too many sportspeople (avoid too many with same line of work). Kusturica is by far the most notable within movies. Jovan Vladimir is a notable medieval figure and saint, true, but his deeds cannot be compared to Saint Sava, plus he is already at Serbs of Montenegro. I agree on Dučić, replace him with Milanković perhaps? Continue with the examples and discussion, we'll vote later as soon as we have a decent number of candidates. Let's focus on who needs to be in, to represent Serbs in a positive way, no infamous people.--Zoupan 16:59, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

Agreed, how about adding Mehmed Paša-Sokolović and pushing Dučić aside? 23 editor (talk) 17:48, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

Oh and for the record Jovan Vladimir is not in the infobox for Serbs of Montenegro and Milanković can be seen in the article Serbs of Croatia. 23 editor (talk) 21:18, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

I mostly agree with the current revision of the infobox by Zoupan, except that Milanković would be a better choice than Dučić (as Zoupan also proposed). We should give precedence to scientists. Generally speaking, 100 најзнаменитијих Срба is a good starting point for any proposal regarding prominent Serbs up to the first half of the 20th century. There are 4 sports-people in the box now. How about replacing one of them with a notable soldier like Field Marshal Živojin Mišić? In that case, Vidić would be the first candidate for replacement IMO. I suppose we all know that "Tsar" Lazar was never crowned king, let alone tsar, and that the title is a legendary one. But most readers are probably not aware of that distinction, and they could be misled by that caption. So it's better to change it to Prince Lazar, to reflect his historical title. (Actually it were Russians, not Serbs, who first "promoted" Lazar, in the 16th century when he was a popular saint in Russia.) Vladimir (talk) 15:43, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

First of all, we should decide how many people should be included and which persons are "not opened for discussion" (Tesla, Vuk Karadžić, Saint Sava, tzar Dušan etc). My suggestion for this infobox is 7x3 or 8x3 and not any sort of 4x4 or something like that. I think that Mehmeded-paša Sokolović and Nikola Pašić are indeed notable candidates, and Stojan Novaković is another fine candidate - great historian, author, writer, politican and diplomat. About sportsmen... Đoković and Divac are nice choices, and I prefer Džajić or Stojković over Vidić. Mm.srb (talk) 18:36, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

I think that there are too many sportspeople included and I think that it would be best if we replaced Vidić with someone else. 23 editor (talk) 00:00, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

Reconsidering Dučić, he is the only representative of the Modernist literature in the box, and he is not less notable than, for example, Mokranjac or P. Jovanović. Dučić has an additional notability for his political activism and diplomatic career. He should remain in the infobox. Vladimir (talk) 14:04, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

How about we just create a montage with 30 individuals similar to the one that can be seen in the articles about Germans or Russians, because clearly everyone is going to have their own opinions about who should be included in the infobox and there just isn't enough space for everybody to be included if the format of the infobox stays the same. I suggest that we include 30 famous Serbs and we simply agree on who should be included and there shouldn't be a problem. 23 editor (talk) 20:10, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Either that, or we put it to a vote ? Mm.srb (talk) 00:12, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Maybe 4x6 would be enough, so the current 20 can remain, to whom I would add Arsenije III Čarnojević, Živojin Mišić, Milutin Milanković, and Gavrilo Princip. If a collage will be made, then each included image should be cropped to the same aspect ratio, and scaled maintaining the aspect ratio. This is to avoid unacceptable distortions like in here. Vladimir (talk) 13:17, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

I guess that 4x6 or 3x8 would be enough. But, adding Princip to the list is completely unnecessary and controversial. And what about Jovan Vladimir, Medmed-pasa Sokolovic, Nikola Pašić, Stojan Novaković, Džajić and all the other candidates ? I agree with you on Milanković and Mišić. Shall we push Cvijić aside ? From some reason, I got a feeling that this is gonna be a long and hard discussion. Mm.srb (talk) 16:26, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

How about this, a 7x3 infobox: 1st row Jovan Vladimir, Stefan Nemanja, Saint Sava, Dušan the Mighty, Mehmed-paša Sokolović, Zaharije Orfelin, Dositej Obradović. 2nd row: Karađorđe, Njegoš, Vuk Karadžić, Stevan Stojanović Mokranjac, Nadežda Petrović, Peter I of Serbia, Mihajlo Pupin. 3rd row: Nikola Tesla, Paja Jovanović, Jovan Dučić, Emir Kusturica, Ana Ivanović, Vlade Divac, Novak Đoković.

23 editor (talk) 16:22, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

6x4 is the best solution. The first row would definitely be: Jovan Vladimir, Stefan Nemanja, Saint Sava, Dušan the Mighty, Prince Lazar(?), Mehmed-paša Sokolović. We should not include Peter I because we have far too monarchs and rulers.Mm.srb (talk) 17:45, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

This will take some time. I think a buffer zone of 30 people would be good for now, we'll decide over the final number later, so why don't each user list 26 people? After everybody has listed their candidates, we'll do the math and have a list over the 30 most nominated candidates, then we'll continue from there. Another idea is to list candidates (From SANU's list, and include those that have been nominated here) and then everybody place their signatures on which ones they support (a maximum of 30 per user). What do you think?--Zoupan 22:53, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Alright, let's do it. My candidates:

Jovan Vladimir, Stefan Nemanja, Saint Sava, Dušan the Mighty, Lazar of Serbia, Mehmed-paša Sokolović, Zaharije Orfelin, Dositej Obradović, Karađorđe, Vuk Karadžić, Njegoš, Mihajlo Pupin, Nikola Tesla, Paja Jovanović, Stojan Novaković, Živojin Mišić, Nikola Pašić, Stevan Stojanović Mokranjac, Milutin Milanković, Nadežda Petrović, Jovan Dučić, Danilo Bata Stojković, Marina Abramović, Emir Kusturica, Vlade Divac, Novak Đoković. Mm.srb (talk) 13:43, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Why don't we simply keep all the people from the current infobox (except maybe Vidić) and add 4 or 8 more ? Mm.srb (talk) 20:24, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Could someone pls push aside Princip, Vladislavić and King Marko and change them with some other figures ? Also, we should make a collage for the infobox because it does not look so nice this way - or it is just my opinion. Best regards. Mm.srb (talk) 09:40, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

Check this out, I did my best - http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Serbs24_collage.jpg I have also created several other versions of this one, and mosaic/collage of 30 persons (something like Germans or Italians) as well, but I do not have time to upload it. If maybe you would like to upload it, contact me. Anyway, this is much better than our current infobox. Mm.srb (talk) 23:31, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

I've uploaded few more versions, and the current should be changed because Pupin's image has been removed. Mm.srb (talk) 11:47, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

Here you go (and there is another version btw.) - http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Serbs_28_persons_mosaic.jpg Mm.srb (talk) 02:02, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

Mm.srb, svaka čast! i am trully magnified with your latest picture! You couldnt have done it better, all of these persons deserve to be here and none less, none maybe more, you have outdone yourself. I cant wait to see how it looks on the article page. Congratulations! (Правичност (talk) 21:26, 22 March 2013 (UTC))

Ok the latest mosaic you have made is excellent! And therefore i propose we use it, therefore you have my full support into replacing the old picture with a new one. Best regards! (Правичност (talk) 22:53, 5 April 2013 (UTC))

Hvala druže! It looks lovely, at least for me. Mm.srb (talk) 07:27, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Nema problema druže. Same for me :) (Правичност (talk) 19:58, 11 April 2013 (UTC))

So, is this discussion finally finished? Mm.srb (talk) 18:29, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Mm.srb, yes probably, but we have a slight problem.... somebody replaced ivo andrić with marina abramović pic in your mosaic... and idk why ... abramović is already on the serbian american article, idont think she needs to be on serbs too, atleast not of such importance like nikola tesla or some others by my opinion. (Правичност (talk) 17:13, 4 May 2013 (UTC))

As promised, here are some of my new works (Note: there are few versions) - http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Serbs_30_collage_1.jpg http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Serbs_30people_1_1.jpg Feel free to comment. Also, I included Marina Abramović, because we do not have so many famous women and she is well known through the world, plus there is no available picture of Desanka Maksimović. My work here is done. Mm.srb (talk) 21:24, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Good work druže, we might use one of these, they look just great :). (Правичност (talk) 00:19, 16 June 2013 (UTC))