Talk:Section (military unit)

Moved from Section (disambiguation)

In the US Army, it is a half-[[platoon]]. In the British Army and its Commonwealth allies a Section is a unit equivalent to a US Army [[squad]].

Joe Llywelyn Griffith Blakesley _{talk contrib} 20:09, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Comments moved from article

The following moved from the article. If someone knows what to do with it, please feel free. --Rifleman 82 16:01, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] There was never a "scout group" in the British Army rifle section. The section consisted of only two groups: the rifle group and the gun group. The latter could be as few as the section 2i/c (lance corporal) and gunner.

This may explain the confusion: On patrol using a section, a section commander would put forward a scout, perhaps two, depending on terrain and circumstances. They did not form a section "group" but performed a patrol function. Each soldier had a function such as scout, pacer and check-pacer (measuring distance travelled), navigator and check navigator, etc. As far as I know this practice continues today.

Correct, this practice still continues but with numerous extra roles in addition to the few mentioned. Due to the highly trained nature of the modern Infantryman he has no problems in moving flexibly between roles in the Section, however fixed roles are in place to prevent confusion. Even at Section level numerous specialists are present the two NCOs will be highly trained and experienced soldiers. As an example some long service Cpls (Corporals) can have 20 or more years of military service under their belts if they choose not to progress to Sgt (Sergeant), this makes it easy to see why many people say that Cpls are the most important rank in the army. Both LSW gunners in the Sec. are used as marksman who lay down SP (support) fire when appropriate as well as being utilised in the picking off of individual enemy soldiers due to their accuracy; the LSW is gradually being replaced by the French made Minimi due to the latters increased rate of fire and larger magazine capacity as well as its useful ability to still take normal SA80A2 magazines. The Sec will often tend to have a SecMed (Section Medic.) this individual will carry the Sec's F/A kit and will have been trained on a course until the desired standard and correct level of profficiency is reached. The Sct is often seen as a poor job as it carries with it the added risk of being the first person seen by the En. and often the first person to be shot because of this! Two Gdrs are present in most Secs and they are armed with extra grenades or sometimes UGLs (underslung Grenade Launchers) they will be prepared to get lose enough to an En. position to 'pop' a grenade in.

I hope this helps give a little insight into the members of a British Army Infantry Sec.

Shouldn't the mistaken information regarding the three groups be replaced? Why was it removed in the first place? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Acorn897 (talk • contribs) 03:11, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

British section is suggestive

British section reads like it was written by a cadet (no offense to original writer intended). It implies a rigid system of rank dependent structure when infact this is not the case. The rank structure is a theoretical one and units rarely achieve this level of consistancy. Sections can end up being commanded by a 2nd Lieutenant, Sgt or S/Sgt. Different regiments employ different tactics which is infact probably the greatest determining factor in section size/composition. To say an infantry section consists of 8 men is also implicating a level of rigidity which simply doesnt exist. Section size varies considerably with sections ranging from 4 to 12 men. 12 men could become two 6 man sections of two 3 man fireteams respectively. The British army tends to work more with larger unit structures than the US using what are called manouver support groups, in principle its the same basic idea as sections/fireteams only on a platoon/section or even company/platoon level.90.196.237.192 (talk) 01:02, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

"British section reads like it was written by a cadet", I agree! Whoever wrote it obviously does not know Brecon well (no offence intended). The British infantry section can change to suit circumstances such as the 6-man sections often used in Afghanistan when using WMIK Landrovers with three men to a vehicle. SNCOs and officers do not act as infantry section commanders and that is what this article is about. They DO act as patrol commanders and patrol sizes vary enormously.

As for the three group section, I repeat, it never existed and there was no set position for any man. Scouts, (when required) consisted of either one or two men were often changed within the rifle section to ease the burden and although section commanders sometimes acted as scout, it was officially frowned upon.

I would suggest that this erroneous entry be amended. Acorn897 (talk) 02:41, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Can the history of section sizes in the British Army be given? To me it doesn't make sense that a platoon consists of only three 8-man sections, this doesn't seem that effective tactically. when did they change from the 12-man organization? User 070 (talk) 16:43, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

The British section also seems factually incorrect. The points of variance are as follows:

• "NOTE. All troops in an infantry section are armed with a P228 pistol and 1 infantry section to a mastiff or warrior" Absolute rubbish. Pistols are not issued universally, and the L9 Browning is still the British Army's standard handgun.
• "rifleman, armed with a L7A2 7.62mm general purpose machine gun": Again, rubbish. The GPMG has a two man crew, and is normally issued to the Machine Gun Platoon of an Infantry Battalion.
• "riflemen, armed with a L85A2 5.56mm rifle with 40mm underslung grenade launcher and benelli M4". Citation needed, and the designation is L128A1. The author also states that the grenadier is issued the shotgun, whereas the Modern equipment of the British Army says it is issued to the pointman.

I think the entire British section needs citation. CMarshall (talk) 12:09, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Definitely especially with Army 2020 Is it still eight men per section? http://www.army.mod.uk/equipment/23213.aspx Phd8511 (talk) 17:41, 15 June 2014 (UTC).

Staffel

In the "other" section, it is present the statement ... make up a flight, known as a staffel in the Luftwaffe. I do not agree with this definition. As a quick check, try and follow the wikilink in the phrase: you will verify on Wiki too that Staffel is the equivalent of a squadron, which is a bigger organisation level. --EH101 (talk) 12:27, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Police

Could there be references for the police section.94.1.6.78 (talk) 15:16, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

The picture at the beginning of the article

Could a better picture be found?
I don't think the current one is right because:
a)This article is called: 'Section (military unit) '. According to the information of the current photograph, (which can only be read when the picture is clicked-on). it is of a platoon.
and
b)There is no mention of the Latvian army in the article.

RASAM (talk) 14:56, 7 October 2019 (UTC)