Talk:Scartella cristata
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Article title and capitalization
[edit]Should the name be capitalized in the title? What is the etymology of this name? Is Miller capitalized as a surname, or lower-case as an occupation (i.e. miller)? For that matter, does Molly also a represent a given name? or should it be the lower-case molly as per the un-related freshwater fishes in the genus Poecilia.
Should the full common name of this species (molly miller blenny) be used instead? Or is it now best placed at the scientific binomial in order to remove all ambiguity? Even then, there would still be the use of an accepted vernacular common name in the article body to that would require a consistent use in congruence with the Wikipedia MOS.
Keeping in mind that the capitalization used by academic and popular sources when using the common name to describe this species is also inconsistent and they have different standards than our own MOS, it is difficult to just "search for the answer" by comparing the number of search results, even on Google Scholar. Nor is a common name included in Linnaeus' original scientific description.
Pinging @Drmies, who may have additional information on this subject following their 2010 page move of this article, and other major contributors (@Ashleigh Marshall, @Quetzal1964, and @Zac1zac). Loopy30 (talk) 14:39, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
- On a cursory search the origin of the name is unknown but it is the only common English name given by FishBase. I disagree with the MOS on common names and this is one example of why I disagree but that ship has sailed. There is also a chance that an article on a person called Molly Miller will be created at some point. Aquarists appear to refer to this fish as the Molly Miller B(b)lenny. I think the article should be moved to the binomial and the common name should be left capitalised in the text but its etymology, or lack thereof, should be set out in the article. Quetzal1964 (talk) 15:32, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
Requested move 9 January 2024
[edit]- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: moved. This discussion resulted in a clear consensus to move the fish's article. Several destinations were proposed for this article; I saw Scartella cristata as supported by the strongest policy-backed argument, which identified that title as WP:CONSISTENT with the pattern for other species in its genus. The question of whether to move the basketball coach's article was more contentious; however, given the consensus that the fish's article should cease to be titled "Molly Miller", the argument against the coach's WP:PRIMARYTOPIC status became moot. (While molly miller is a redirect to the fish's article, it was noted that this is distinct from Molly Miller under WP:DIFFCAPS.) (closed by non-admin page mover) ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 15:28, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
– The first move is per the discussion above, which seemed to have reached consensus for the name to be changed to either scientific name of the fish, or to the full common name of Molly miller blenny. In any case the title as-is needs to change as this is not currently WP:SENTENCECASE. If the first article is moved off of Molly Miller then the second article can have the disambiguator removed. I would also be okay with changing the first article to Molly miller per WP:DIFFCAPS. Bensci54 (talk) 18:06, 9 January 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Dantus21 (talk) 22:59, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
- Note: WikiProject Fishes has been notified of this discussion. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 18:39, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
- OpposeI don't see how a US basketball coach of a minor college is the primary topic. There might be a case for no primary topic, but I don't see a convincing case here. — Jts1882 | talk 20:39, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
- Okay, I gather that you oppose the second move, then? I can understand that. It may be better to redirect Molly Miller to the fish article if that is the primary topic and leave the coach article where it is. But what about the first move? As I mentioned in my request, I don't believe the current title is correct as it doesn't appear to be in sentence case. Bensci54 (talk) 20:55, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
- It does seem that a move to Molly miller would best meet Wikipedia naming conventions. I don't know where the name came from and there don't seem to be other fish named as millers, but I see no indication it was named after a person. I can find both lower and uppercase examples of the name online. FishBase uses lower case (see here and that is the source we usually follow for fish species articles. I don't think it a good idea to have two titles differing only in the case of one word, so it's probably best to keep the disambiguator for the basketball coach and create a disambiguation page at Molly Miller (uppercase). — Jts1882 | talk 07:43, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
- WP:DIFFCAPS and WP:2DABS indicate that it is acceptable (and indeed preferable in cases where only two topics are being disambiguated) to have two pages differ only by capitalization, so long as hatnotes are place at each article pointing to the other. Bensci54 (talk) 13:37, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
- It does seem that a move to Molly miller would best meet Wikipedia naming conventions. I don't know where the name came from and there don't seem to be other fish named as millers, but I see no indication it was named after a person. I can find both lower and uppercase examples of the name online. FishBase uses lower case (see here and that is the source we usually follow for fish species articles. I don't think it a good idea to have two titles differing only in the case of one word, so it's probably best to keep the disambiguator for the basketball coach and create a disambiguation page at Molly Miller (uppercase). — Jts1882 | talk 07:43, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
- Support Move Molly Miller to either Molly miller blenny, which seems to be the correct common name, or Scartella cristata as a second choice. It would then be logical to move Molly Miller (basketball) to Molly Miller. The name Molly Miller (uppercase) doesn't seem to be the correct name of the fish and reserving it as a redirect to the correct name doesn't seem right to me. If it was the correct name, then I'm not sure which one was the primary topic. The article for the basketball coach, who coaches a Division I college team, was only created three days ago so page views don't give a hint of which one is more viewed. Using Google Trend, the search term Molly Miller Basketball and Molly Miller coach trump over Molly Miller fish, though Molly miller blenny gets similar amount of hits. Alvaldi (talk) 10:44, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
- Support move to Scartella cristata. "Molly miller blenny" doesn't seem to be very commonly used. This is the only Scartella species that uses a vernacular name as a title, so a move to the scientific name would be consistent with the other species. Plantdrew (talk) 16:38, 18 January 2024 (UTC)