Talk:Sami Yusuf

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Sami Yusuf article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1: 2 months

This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.

If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.

Biography: Musicians

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by WikiProject Musicians.

Iran Mid‑importance

	Iran portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Iran, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to articles related to Iran on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please join the project where you can contribute to the discussions and help with our open tasks.IranWikipedia:WikiProject IranTemplate:WikiProject IranIran articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Azerbaijan Mid‑importance

	Azerbaijan portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Azerbaijan, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Azerbaijan-related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.AzerbaijanWikipedia:WikiProject AzerbaijanTemplate:WikiProject AzerbaijanAzerbaijan articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

United Kingdom Low‑importance

	United Kingdom portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject United Kingdom, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the United Kingdom on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.United KingdomWikipedia:WikiProject United KingdomTemplate:WikiProject United KingdomUnited Kingdom articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

The contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to articles about living or recently deceased people, and edits relating to the subject (living or recently deceased) of such biographical articles, which has been designated as a contentious topic.

Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.

This article is the subject of a request emailed to the Volunteer Response Team (VRT).

Issues identified are: long-term pattern of misinformation
The VRTS ticket number is 2007022610024954.

Please discuss these issues here, being mindful of the policies on biographies of living persons.

Archives

1

This page has archives. Sections older than 60 days may be automatically archived by .

Individuals with a conflict of interest, particularly those representing the subject of the article, are strongly advised not to directly edit the article. See Wikipedia:Conflict of interest. You may request corrections or suggest content here on the Talk page for independent editors to review, or contact us if the issue is urgent.

The Wikimedia Foundation's Terms of Use require that editors disclose their "employer, client, and affiliation" with respect to any paid contribution; see WP:PAID. For advice about reviewing paid contributions, see WP:COIRESPONSE.

Mjahangir777 (talk · contribs) has been paid by Clover Management on behalf of Sami Yusuf. Their editing has included contributions to this article. Disclosed being part of subject's management here; blocked for edit warring, sockpuppetry, block evasion and legal threats.
Madijahangir (talk · contribs) has been paid by Clover Management on behalf of Sami Yusuf. Self-disclosed here. Suspected sockpuppet of Mjahangir777.
CCloverm16 (talk · contribs) has been paid by Clover Management on behalf of Sami Yusuf. Self-disclosed here. Suspected sockpuppet of Mjahangir777.

A source for "Siamak Berenjan" and "Babak Radmanesh"

http://www.bbc.com/persian/arts/2015/07/150729_music_sami_yusof_iran_reaction –Skywatcher68 (talk) 17:08, 9 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

As discussed above this is FAKE news and in a languages we don't undrestand and we can not use this as source.

The following link has been sourced for this false claim surrounding his name: http://www.bbc.com/persian/arts/2015/07/150729_music_sami_yusof_iran_reaction

As it is a language I do not understand I had to get it translated. It is now clear that this article is 100% false. It has apparently been around for 4 years and has only come to our attention now through Wikipedia.

I would like to make it absolutely clear that Sami Yusuf only has one name, that is ’Sami Yusuf’. I am astonished that Wikipedia would take a very dubious source so seriously. https://twitter.com/samiyusuf/status/960210578043293696 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mjahangir777 (talk • contribs) 21:15, 12 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The BBC is most definitely not fake! And that Twitter post has no bearing, given that the question was not about his birth name. –Skywatcher68 (talk) 18:46, 13 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Wait, you're from Iran and you don't understand the language? I find that very hard to believe. –Skywatcher68 (talk) 15:52, 16 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

PLEAE CHECK THIS (URGENT)

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Entire of this section is WRONG and misleading information. I surprised why you approve them! Check the sources, nothing about these lines mentioned there. Please address this at least.

Sami Yusuf was born as Siamak Berenjan (سیامک برنجان) on 1980 in Tehran to Azerbaijani parents. His father is Firouz Berenjan, better known by his stage name Babak Radmanesh, an Iranian composer.[19][20][21] His grandparents are from Baku, Azerbaijan. His grandparents left Baku when it was recaptured by the Bolsheviks after the First World War.[22] Mjahangir777 (talk) 17:08, 9 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The only currently un-sourced material was his birthname and his father, which is given in the BBC article above. His father's real name is then given here. – Þjarkur (talk) 01:53, 10 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Dusti:Please note the above: was unsourced. –Skywatcher68 (talk) 18:57, 13 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I took the page back to the last stable version before all of this edit warring happened. What would you like changed, and why? Dusti ^{*Let's talk!*} 19:02, 13 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Dusti:See below. Those names are not unsourced nor are the sources fake.–Skywatcher68 (talk) 19:20, 13 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Iranian-British or British

Hello. We have received an edit request about Sami Yusuf's nationality in fawiki (This discussion). @WPooya: says that Sami Yusuf is British. Sources are in that discussion. @HistoryofIran: Hello. Since you know Farsi as well, please talk to WPooya about this. You may also want to read that discussion in fawiki. Thanks in advance. Ahmad^Talk 17:21, 13 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

---

Dear @HistoryofIran: we can provide you all sources and documents in this regard. As you may know it was British all these years everywhere including Google graph and Wikipedia and you made changes suddenly and use your power to block us and keep your wrong information. If I know what is your purpose and what you achieve for that would be great. Kindly keep that line like what it WAS. Hope you read and answer to us.

Mjahangir 17:53, 13 April 2019 (UTC)

Seems like my "power" blocked you again. --HistoryofIran (talk) 18:52, 13 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps, History, you shouldn't be taunting users that you complain of harassing you. Else, that'll wind you up blocked yourself. Dusti ^{*Let's talk!*} 19:01, 13 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Dusti: Come on, it was just a light hearted joke. --HistoryofIran (talk) 19:03, 13 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Dusti: Dear Dusti, I'm not sure why you are blocked me and I would ask you to kindly check following reasons for few seconds. These users Skywatcher68 and User:historyofiran doesn't want to even listen what we are trying to say.

1- Since last 16 years of Sami Yusuf activities it wasn't mentioned anywhere that he has dual citizenship, He is only British of all these years and you can see this in all sources I mentioned above.

2- These changes only occurred recently by these two users that we are suspect they are Iranian nationalist/supremacist and try to make changes because of this.

3- It is patently false to call Sami Yusuf "British-Iranian" as he does not hold Iranian citizenship/dual nationality and, for the purpose of clarification he is ethnically Azeri (not Iranian). He only holds British Citizenship based on all following important sources. Also here is the link confirming this in a 2018 Q&A session with Mr Yusuf: https://twitter.com/samiyusuf/status/960207745126453248 and his biography: https://samiyusufofficial.com/about-sami-yusuf/

4- Here are some very important sources for your reference that showing he has only British citizenship. Other sources:

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2006/apr/27/1?INTCMP=SRCH https://www.thenational.ae/arts-culture/music/sami-yusuf-if-one-has-a-strong-spiritual-discipline-it-lessens-the-burden-1.813322 https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04gnhvx https://www.wfp.org/news/news-release/sami-yusuf-dedicates-new-song-typhoon-survivors-philippines http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1220754,00.html

And many many other sources.

I hope this time someone just listen to me and read through what I trying to say instead of BLOCKING.

Many thanks M 185.239.173.110 (talk) 19:51, 13 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Dusti and HistoryofIran: Hello again. What's your comment about sources above? What should we do about Yusuf's nationality? Ahmad^Talk 11:05, 14 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Joining two adjectives of nationality or ethnicity together does not imply dual citizenship. For a very long time it has been common in American English to use expressions such as "Japanese American" and "Italian American" to refer to United States citizens whose ancestry or ethnic background is from somewhere else, without implying dual citizenship. In more recent times the same has become common in British English, except that for some reason it is more common in British usage to put the words the other way round, so that "British Iranian" would perhaps be better. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 12:04, 15 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I have put some thought into this. Since an editor working on Sami Yusuf's behalf has made it clear that that editor regards Sami Yusuf as British, and not as "British-Iranian", it seems reasonable to conclude that Sami Yusuf self-identifies only as British, and whereas any question of citizenship is a matter of law, with a definite correct answer, a general description of someone's ethnic background is not so clear cut, and how he self-identifies should be given consideration. (I have a vague feeling that there is some guideline or other that supports that view, but I have no intention to spend time searching for it.) I therefore propose to replace "British-Iranian" with just "British", and to add a mention of the fact that he was born in Iran. I hope that will be a compromise that is acceptable to all: it will remove any possibility of anyone reading the description as implying dual citizenship, as desired by one party in this dispute, and at the same time will keep an indication of his origin from outside Britain, as desired by the other side. If anyone disagrees with this, then I hope they will post here explaining why, but I don't intend to defend it or argue about it. I am doing this in the hope that it will resolve the problem, but if it unfortunately doesn't then I am not going to get into edit-wars or quarrels over it. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 15:38, 17 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@JamesBWatson: Thanks. Can't find many editors who take their time for such a subject. I'll let @WPooya: know about this new edit. Ahmad^Talk 17:42, 26 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Sami Yusuf does not hold any dual citizenship. He is, thus, not Iranian-British. He is just British as the only nationality he hold is British. There are enough sources to prove this point. Hoping that you will take this into consideration and edit his nationality info to "British" only HalaW25 (talk) 09:48, 24 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Nationality-wise, Sami Yusuf is British and does not have any other nationality/ passport. Ethnicity-wise, he has Azeri roots and therefore it does not seem logical or even legal to describe him as Iranian-British. It is not just a matter of self-identification. He CAN'T be called Iranian-British for it is false information. Thanks everyone. HalaW25 (talk) 13:05, 24 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ok. So Azeris born in Iran, comprising Iran's 2nd largest ethnic group, are not Iranian citizens? Also, in which country is Tehran located? - LouisAragon (talk) 14:00, 24 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@LouisAragon Azeris born in Iran aren't Iranian citizens unless they have accquired Iranian citizenship. Sami Yusuf does not have Iranian citizenship nor residency and is not amongst the "2nd largest ethnic group in Iran" you have mentioned. I don't know if your question about the wherrabouts of Tehran is sarcastic or not so I will answer any way. Tehran is located in Iran HalaW25 (talk) 16:36, 26 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

More sources for "Siamak Berenjan" (سیامک برنجان) and "Babak Radmanesh"

From July of last year: [1]

From April of last year:[2]

From July of 2015:[3]

From September of 2015:[4]

From November of last year:[5]

All "fake"? –Skywatcher68 (talk) 19:18, 13 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

We can not even READ what it says here! they are all made up links. please provide ONE VALID english source! I would ask you to see his biography too: https://samiyusufofficial.com/biography

I'm sorry but what you are trying to mention is not right.

185.239.173.107 (talk) 19:27, 13 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

More block evasion by Mjahangir. --HistoryofIran (talk) 19:29, 13 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

https://samiyusufofficial.com/biography: "This site can’t be reached". –Skywatcher68 (talk) 19:32, 13 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

English Wikipedia has no requirement that sources be in English, otherwise there would be no option to cite works in other languages. Google has over 100,000 hits for "سیامک برنجان"; all above links have been verified that the "سیامک برنجان" in question is Sami Yusuf. –Skywatcher68 (talk) 19:41, 13 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Stop spread hate skywatcher68! Answer me, please provide one important English source for your claim.

Stop trying to ignore facts. –Skywatcher68 (talk) 19:57, 13 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Mjahangir777, Skywatcher68 is quite right. There is no requirement for sources to be in English. Obviously it is likely to be more helpful to readers of an English language encyclopaedia to use English sources when they are available, but that does not mean that we exclude all content for which English sources aren't available. I have also posted a much longer message to the talk page of your original account, explaining various issues about which you have asked. I hope it may be helpful to you. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 12:06, 15 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Mjahangir777, a few more points.

I have looked at the "official" biography that you have linked to, and at present the full and complete text of the page is "Biography ©2019 Sami Yusuf is exclusively managed & represented by Clover Management Limited."
We don't give priority to what someone chooses to say about themself in their own web site. On the contrary, we give priority to what reliable independent sources say. People's own versions are often heavily influenced by what they want people to believe about them.
I don't know what you mean by "made up", but if you think there are good reasons for regarding a sourced as unsuitable, you need to explain why, not just announce that it isn't a good source and expect us to take your word for it. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 12:23, 15 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

How about "Siamak Radmanesh"?

@Dusti:Seems there wasn't any problem with that in October of 2014. –Skywatcher68 (talk) 20:31, 16 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, look, the source for that name is a BBC Persian article from 2013. Why is BBC Persian a problem all of a sudden? –Skywatcher68 (talk) 21:00, 16 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Record company name!

Sami Yusuf's only label record company is Andante Records. He is not represented by Awakening Records and information about this record label should be removed from his bio and about. Please check and accept the edit I made HalaW25 (talk) 09:51, 24 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@HalaW25: Please refer to Template:Infobox Musical Artist#label and to Sami's discography. AlMu'allim and My Ummah were released by Awakening. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Assem Khidhr (talk • contribs) 15:39, 24 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]