Talk:Saint Paul (disambiguation)

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On 24 December 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved to Saint Paul. The result of the discussion was not moved.

Requested move 24 December 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. There is a clear absence of consensus for the proposed move. BD2412 T 21:08, 31 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Saint Paul (disambiguation) → Saint Paul – While I'd think first of Paul the Apostle when "Saint Paul" is mentioned there are over 250 entries on the DAB which is huge! While also Paul the Apostle gets's the most views[[1]] and probably has the most long-term significance there are other saints and many places etc such as Saint Paul, Minnesota the capital of the state, São Paulo in Portugal and Pope Paul VI. Google is split between Paul the Apostle, the capital and St Paul's Cathedral. Image and Books does suggest Paul the Apostle is primary. Paul the Apostle should still be the first entry on the DAB. Crouch, Swale (talk) 20:12, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose, justified primary redirect. Undeniable long-term significance. 162 etc. (talk) 20:30, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'm inclined to oppose without some evidence that there is an actual problem. As 162 etc. Says, the long-term significance is undeniable. older ≠ wiser 22:35, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm, some of the content of the disambiguation page is a bit sketchy, it sounds like misplaced literal translations. Sao Paulo and its Brazilian state aren't conventionally referred to as Saint Paul, Brazil in English, are they? Likewise for the German items named Sankt Pauli? Or Stadio San Paolo in Napoli, which also since got renamed anyway?
I do still give some credence to the idea that the relatively long list of Christian saints called Saint Paul factors into this, as does e.g. Saint Paul, Minnesota. The long-term significance argument of the saints should be examined. How do the reliable sources that discuss multiple saints called Paul handle the ambiguity?
With regard to usage, WikiNav is pretty useless because the organic traffic for the Apostle is overwhelming at 145k+. The graphs of page views for the navigation elements are interesting, though - there's a possibility that a steady 1/4 or 1/3 of queries for Saint Paul are going for the hatnote. A look into the clickstream archive says:

clickstream-enwiki-2023-10.tsv:Paul_the_Apostle Saint_Paul_(disambiguation) link 419
clickstream-enwiki-2023-08.tsv:Paul_the_Apostle Saint_Paul_(disambiguation) link 389
clickstream-enwiki-2023-09.tsv:Paul_the_Apostle Saint_Paul_(disambiguation) link 362

So that's actually less, 419 / 3750 = ~11%, 389 / 3332 = ~11%, 362 / 3569 = ~10%. This is on the edge of completely safe primary redirect status, since just under 90% of identifiable clickstreams don't seem to be lost after following the redirect. --Joy (talk) 19:30, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per long-term significance as stated above. Nearly everything on the disamb page, if not everything, is named for Saint Paul (thus certifying, in real-world actions, that long-term significance of Paul played the key role in each of their namings). Randy Kryn (talk) 15:14, 26 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per long-term significance. Srnec (talk) 16:55, 28 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.