Talk:Ruggiero Giovanelli

Merge other article, Ruggiero Giovannelli to here

I created this article in response to a request to transcribe the subject from the 1911 Catholic Encyclopedia. I missed the existing Wiki article when I was searching before writing.

This article uses a broad range of old and new sources (I added none of my own interpretation). The other article Ruggiero Giovannelli seems to depend on a number of uncited statements from one particular recent author. I don't have access to that source, but I copied across those statements that seemed likely to be correct.

I did my best with his list of works, but the three major lists I could find all were incomplete, and seemed to perhaps use different terms for the same thing. Piano non troppo (talk) 06:23, 13 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I used the New Grove, which is the gold standard music encyclopedia in the world today (only the MGG comes close), and I used Reese's magisterial Music in the Renaissance, the largest and most complete single history of music of the era, as a secondary source. When I wrote the article, January 2005, that was before we were using inline cites; I did, however, list all my sources, so "seems to depend on a number of uncited statements" isn't exactly capturing the situation: the authors of the Grove article, and Gustave Reese himself, were the two authors most likely to know about Giovannelli. By the way, the double-n spelling is that most commonly used by musicologists. See, for example, the following articles:

A. Gabrielli: Ruggiero Giovannelli: musicista insigne (Velletri, 1907)

H.-W. Frey: Ruggiero Giovannelli: eine biographische Studie, KJb, xxii (1909), 49–62

A. Cametti: Ruggiero Giovannelli: note biografiche, Musica d’oggi, vii (1925), 211–12

A. Gabrielli: Ruggiero Giovannelli nella vita e nelle opere (Velletri, 1926)

C. Winter: Ruggiero Giovannelli: Nachfolger Palestrinas zu St. Peter in Rom (Munich, 1935)

R.I. DeFord: Ruggiero Giovannelli and the Madrigal in Rome, 1572–1599 (diss., Harvard U., 1975) [incl. edns of music]

Note especially the 1975 doctoral dissertation uses the double-n spelling, which remains current. I'm not sure why the author of the Catholic Encyclopedia article used the single-n.

By the way, one has to be cautious using the Catholic Encyclopedia as a source on articles on Renaissance and early Baroque composers. It's full of stuff that's just, well, wrong, or at least superseded, corrected, and refined. Musicology has come a long way since then; indeed that was written a half-century before Alfred Einstein published his colossal The Italian Madrigal in 1949, which is the foundation for most subsequent work in secular music of the time.

I'd be happy to look over the contents of both articles with regard to the article in the most current New Grove (2001) -- accessible online -- since I wrote the original using the 1980 (which I have in hard copy), and there's a bunch of new research since then, it needs a facelift anyway. Thank you for your work on this! Antandrus (talk) 18:34, 13 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That's all fine, in the particulars.

It's too bad that someone left an unannotated list of topics, or I could have saved myself an hour's work (not to mention the work I caused by creating this article!) I.e., the article shouldn't have asked for, when it wasn't needed.

I'm not surprised, though, that a hundred year old reference would have a difference of opinion. I wrote a paper once comparing two versions of the Britannica, and, in the articles I chose, they sometimes entirely contradicted.

Thanks for your detailed, on the basis of this experience, I'm removing myself from: Category:WikiProject Missing encyclopedic articles participants. In the time I spent on this article I could have created two entirely new articles -- where the facts weren't particularly in question! Not to mention that I apparently wasted your time, too. Regards, Piano non troppo (talk) 09:39, 30 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, i merged both articles. I tried to keep all info of both articles in there. Since the other article is linked to other-language wiki's of the same article, i assumed that is the correct naming so i merged the article there. Omegastar (talk) 12:10, 23 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]