Talk:RuPaul's Drag Race All Stars season 5/Archive 1

Archive 1

Lip Sync Assassin

hi everyone! i was just thinking that, is it really necessary to put the lip sync assassin on contestant progress, when it’s right there under lip syncs? just curious ! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Monkey77454 (talk • contribs) 02:30, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

I don't think it is. It makes everything cluttered and duplicates information found immediately beneath it. They are also not contestants. Nihlus 02:34, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

Proposal to remove HIGH and LOW placements from the progress table.

We're currently having a discussion in the WikiProject Page about these placements, and while it's still in progress, so far our consensus tends to removing these placements, as they are subjective interpretations of critiques and the sources supporting them may be rather shaky, save for the most recent seasons.

The page of Season 12 had to be protected due to edit warring over these placements. I would propose we pre-emptively nip this in the bud and start removing these placements in the progress table for this season. Not A Superhero (talk) 03:27, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

All Star seasons are easier to do High/Low, because there's mostly always a top 3 and bottom 3. Devonruuurs (talk) 04:07, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

Disagree with this, Ru calls out a clear top 3 and bottom 3, and even in cases where she doesn’t call out the tops & bottoms, the critiques are perfectly clear enough to justify the table remaining as it is. Billwebster91 (talk) 04:42, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

We are currently doing a discusion on the Wikiproject talk page regarding this, the thing is that when we do that we're going beyond what is said the show, an there has been enough edit warring to confirm that the critiques are not always perfectly clear enough for that people argue the differences between safe and high/low for no end. Still, I think your input may be valuable in the overall discussion here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_RuPaul%27s_Drag_Race#Establishing_a_consistent_criteria_for_SAFE,_HIGH_and_LOW_placements.Not A Superhero (talk) 15:12, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

RfC on table

See Wikipedia talk:WikiProject RuPaul's Drag Race#RfC: Proposed progress table for all RPDR shows. Gleeanon409 (talk) 01:10, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

proposed idea for stacked lipsync earnings?

Contestant	Age	Hometown	Original season(s)	Original placement(s)	Outcome	Lipsync Earnings
Alexis Mateo	39	Las Vegas, Nevada	Season 3	3rd Place	TBA	$0
			All Stars 1	5th/6th Place
Blair St. Clair	24	Washington, D.C.	Season 10	9th Place	TBA	$0
India Ferrah	33	Las Vegas, Nevada	Season 3	10th Place	TBA	$0
Jujubee	34	Boston, Massachusetts	Season 2	3rd Place	TBA	$30,000
			All Stars 1	3rd/4th Place
Mariah Paris Balenciaga	37	Los Angeles, California	Season 3	9th Place	TBA	$0
Mayhem Miller	37	Riverside, California	Season 10	10th Place	TBA	$0
Miz Cracker	35	New York City, New York	Season 10	5th Place	TBA	$0
Ongina	37	Los Angeles, California	Season 1	5th Place	TBA	$0
Shea Couleé	30	Chicago, Illinois	Season 9	3rd/4th Place	TBA	$10,000
Derrick Barry	35	Las Vegas, Nevada	Season 8	5th Place	10th Place	$0

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Devonruuurs (talk • contribs)

I think this is something that will serve best as a single sentence. It will depend on how many contestants win money, but I don't think it belongs in the table. Nihlus 20:31, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

I think, if anything this would be better in the lipsyncs table, with an extra column putting something like "Total lipsync prize". However, I'm not sure if this information is actually relevant/necessary in the article. We don't count challenge earnings in regular seasons, why should this be any different? Not A Superhero (talk) 00:05, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 June 2020

Change Mariah's performance from a monologue about femicide to a monologue about race. Change Shea's performance from lap dance to pole dance. 50.34.160.24 (talk) 05:55, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 15:54, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

The best source I could find is Vulture, which describes it as a piece about queer and black oppression. AwardsWatch says it's about the experience of being a queer, visible minority. I suggest changing the description to the one used by Vulture if we can cite it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Not A Superhero (talk • contribs) 23:47, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

Blank cells in contestant progress table

Somebody keeps adding blank cells in the contestant progress table for episode 2 before it has aired yet. Is this really necessary to have? Billwebster91 (talk) 22:41, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

Mariah Paris Balenciaga

People are removing the ‘Paris’ from Mariah’s name on the contestants and contestant progress lists. As she is listed on the show and in the promos as ‘Mariah Paris Balenciaga’ I believe that is how it should be listed on this page. How does everyone feel about this? Billwebster91 (talk) 02:54, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

Mariah

I seriously don’t know why Mariah’s full name is always getting deleted. The lip sync chart needs to include her full name “Mariah Paris Balenciaga” please change it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.129.131.69 (talk) 18:29, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

just a little detail about eliminations

i felt maybe how in the contestant progress there's always ELIM in red, it should have an extra color for when a queen is eliminated based on the vote

I don't think that's necessary. The voting table on the bottom differentiates whether a queen was eliminated by group vote or not CuM00d (talk) 01:35, 20 June 2020 (UTC)CuMood

@CuM00d I see your point, but I suppose if that’s the case, there’s no point in having the yellow shade of WIN either for the queen who loses the lipsync, as this information is displayed in the lipsync table. Billwebster91 (talk) 02:17, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

@Billwebster91 This sort of makes sense... but being eliminated from the competition is final, no matter what the situation, it doesn't necessarily allow for differentiation of track record in the future as there's nothing after it. Furthermore, the WIN shading situation makes sense, because if the WIN is yellow it not only tells you they lost the lipsync, it therefore means by default that that queen DIDN'T get the opportunity to give a bottom queen the chop. ELIM can stay red for cohesion and the information as to how they were eliminated can still be comprehensive with the WIN shade. Ellis.o22 (talk) 16:06, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

@Ellis.o22 that’s fair enough, yeah Billwebster91 (talk) 21:44, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

Mariah's mirror message

Can someone please add in the mirror message Mariah Paris Balenciaga left (I couldn't find the full one). 2605:E000:8502:3C00:6086:6B64:4881:C0BC (talk) 20:36, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

Alexis Mateo week 4 placement

Due to Alexis Mateo receiving positive critiques on her outfit, and negative critiques on the challenge. I feel her placement for this episode should be a cornsilk SAFE (safe after recieving critiques). Can a consensus be reached here? Billwebster91 (talk) 01:44, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

I feel like this is going to be another Gigi being low/safe moment. Yikes ♤MS♤ talk 02:17, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

My vote is SAFE. I feel her critiques were too mixed to go either HIGH or LOW. --TheDevin13 (talk) 03:14, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

Alexis was explicitly stated to be in the top along with Cracker and Jujubee during untucked. There is no opinion on this matter as it was explicitly stated. Dallasansel (talk) 03:59, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

She was stated to be in the top in untucked but during the show did get mixed critiques. Either cornmilk SAFE or HIGH is correct. Why is she currently LOW? 2001:268:C0C8:A692:C5A6:B767:1CA:6AB7 (talk) 07:03, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

I honestly think it should be marked as just SAFE. I seems like the only option considering the extent of the edit warring that’s going on. I mean, the fact that there’s so much warring only confirms what I said about the critiques not being clear. Also who explicitly stated she was in the top in untucked? Because if it was just the queens talking, then that’s just them giving their opinions and is not a valid or reliable source to back up that she placed High. Billwebster91 (talk) 13:06, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

All Stars critiques are always harsher than the regular seasons, consistently throughout this season and many in the past even the queens who did the best get some "negative" feedback when the judges have said they just mean it as constructive. We have had a strict top 3 this whole season and the show has made no deliberate and clear choice to deviate from that yet. It may come, but it most defiantly doesn't apply to this episode. Also just because there is an "edit war" doesn't mean anything. Alexis is currently experiencing a lot of online hate and its more likely that many unconfirmed pages are changing the table out of spite. Not the first time its happened. Dallasansel (talk) 19:18, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

@Dallasansel Where is your source to back up what you just said? You have done nothing more than state your opinion on the matter, opinions are not facts. Unless there is a reliable source to back up a High or Low placement, then it absolutely should not be used in this case. Billwebster91 (talk) 21:49, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

You guys, what is the current protection on the page? Alexis placement has been edited almost 300 times since the episode aired (which aired yesterday, btw)... PLEASE STOP. ♤MS♤ talk 03:09, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

Here is a source suggesting that Alexis was SAFE (and received mixed critiques): https://tv.avclub.com/rupaul-s-drag-race-all-stars-embraces-scandal-and-final-1844184745 ECW03 (talk) 08:21, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

I'm still so confused as to what constitutes a proper source for these placements. If I was to write a blog post, or publish an article saying anyone was Low rather than High, would that be taken as fact? Can anyone just write an article and have their opinion added to this page? At the end of the day, it's really all just opinion, and conjecture, isn't it? During the episode, Alexis got a lot of praise from the judges for her camouflage outfit, and her group got a lot of praise for their performance, probably just as much as Jujubee. They both got critiques, and were called Safe together. Should the companion shows, Untucked, and the Pit Stop be taken into consideration, or are these just more unimportant opinions? If Jujubee is High, then shouldn't Alexis therefore also be High? I'm by no means an Alexis stan, but we should at least be consistent here. Jujubee's critiques were no more positive or negative than Alexis's were, in my non-professional opinion. I've seen plenty of comments and charts online marking Alexis variously as High, Safe and Low, so what's the tea Christine? 177.194.178.151 (talk) 17:53, 28 June 2020 (UTC) To add also, that avclub article claims that Shea was just one vote away from being sent home in episode 3, which is demonstrably false. So can any of the suggested placements be taken seriously if the article contains such an obvious oversight as that? 177.194.178.151 (talk) 18:00, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

Alexis’s placement has been changed SO MANY times now it’s become insane. Surely something has to be done about this? Originally I was against getting rid of HIGH and LOW placements altogether, but this is making me think it’s probably for the best. Billwebster91 (talk) 22:37, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

I don't think Alexis could get a safe placement. Since two girls were called safe and left the main stage, shouldn't Alexis also been one of them if she was safe? Alexis therefore has to be either high or low. This is what Uckey said on YouTube about this "Alexis was low this week, she got too many negative critiques on her performance in the maxi-challenge, plus was called safe opposite Jujubee, who got all good critique, ergo Jujubee was high and Alexis low." I also feel like some of here critiques was about her not doing as good in the improve as her partner Shea. And then, if Shea was safe, could Alexis really be considered high? Hoerdegaard (talk) 19:54, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

This isn't a WP:FANSITE. The article in its current state is now correct. Please leave this debate as it is. ≫ Lil-Unique1 -{ Talk }- 19:56, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

Accessibility discussion

There is a discussion in play at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_RuPaul's_Drag_Race#Web_accessibility_and_adhering_to_the_manual_of_style that will impact the format of some of the tables in this article. Interested parties may wish to comment. ≫ Lil-Unique1 -{ Talk }- 13:33, 2 July 2020 (UTC) I added a point that deals specifically with the tables in this season here:[[1]] Any comments and perspective will be appreciated. Not A Superhero (talk) 06:33, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

Font Size

Can someone change the font so the contestant progress it smaller Benjarvis158 (talk) 16:20, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

Benjarvis158 we're trying to avoid using small fonts per MOS:SMALLFONT. Its hard for people to read. Web accessibility is now a big thing and there are international standards that the whole internet will soon have to adhere to. Wikipedia has been ahead of the game for a while on this stuff now but one of those things is for us to be using standard font sizes throughout. ≫ Lil-Unique1 -{ Talk }- 16:31, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

can it not be changed to the same as previous all stars and drag race wiki pages to make it fit on one page as when it’s too big it’s uneasy to read Benjarvis158 (talk) 18:22, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

Maybe it’s not the font size it’s just the size of boxes for the contestant progress tables the boxes for the placement per episode is to tall and should be more of a rectangle Benjarvis158 (talk) 18:23, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

Agree with this, the font size should remain the same but the size of the boxes currently looks very clunky. The way to fix this would be to edit Mariah’s name (since she has the longest name) like so... Mariah Paris Balenciaga this will mean the names won’t go into a seperate line anymore, so the table will no longer look clunky and untidy, but the font size will still be large so there will be no issue in the accessibility side of things. Billwebster91 (talk) 01:42, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

As a follow up to my previous comment. I don’t mean edit her name to make it shorter, I mean put a ”no wrap” around her name, as this will mean it will stay on one line. Billwebster91 (talk) 01:43, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

People posting results for unaired episodes

Several hours ago, an IP user posted results for episode 7 an 8, which haven't aired yet. Is there a way to prevent this kind of edits? I understand that if an episode hasn't aired it can't be reported simply because the information hasn't been published. Is that correct?

I'm not even talking about spoilers, I'm talking about publishing information before the episodes air. While the rumor forums on the internet get a lot of things right, it's unconfirmed information and I'd say it doesn't belong here. Not A Superhero (talk) 01:05, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

how are IP addresses able to edit the article and add spoilers when it's protected? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Devonruuurs (talk • contribs) 10:37, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

Voting Chart

What is with this new voting chart? It looks awful. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.129.131.69 (talk) 18:42, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

It's called being WP:ACCESSIBLE, all web pages around the internet should comply with internationally recognised standards for web accessibility which mean limited or no use of small text, use of high contrast colours and table captions. These are simple requirements which make it easy for those hard of sight who may use screen reading technology. ≫ Lil-Unique1 -{ Talk }- 08:13, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

Yes but this is much harder to read than the one proposed above, why are all the votes within one cell stretching the table out? This is not what any other reality show wikipedia does2001:268:C0C8:A687:B563:6760:A9CB:2C51 (talk) 15:15, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

WP:OTHERSTUFF states that it isn't always the case that other things are right. However, the table above was created AFTER the more accessible example was created. I've now updated. ≫ Lil-Unique1 -{ Talk }- 20:02, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

New Voting Chart

Hey, all! I wanted to bring this here to discuss because I'm generally confused as to the new voting table. I know everyone is trying to steer away from using small text at all, so I'm wondering why it's being used in the voting chart. Also, the way that the votes were divided was rather confusing and it makes the table look clunky. I've edited it down to remove the smaller font and have the voting chart resemble those from other reality tv shows (i.e. The Challenge and Survivor).

Summary of contests voting history

	Episode
	1	2	3	4	5	6
Deciding vote	The Group	Shea Couleé	The Group	Miz Cracker The Group	Shea Couleé	The Group
Queen	Votes for elimination
Blair	Derrick	Ongina	Mariah	Mayhem	India	Alexis
Jujubee	Mayhem	Ongina	Mariah	Mayhem	India	Alexis
Miz Cracker	Derrick	Ongina	Mariah	Mayhem	India	Alexis
Shea	Derrick	Ongina	Mariah	Mayhem	India	Alexis
Alexis	Derrick	Ongina	Shea	Mayhem	India	Blair
India	Derrick	Ongina	Mariah	Mayhem	Alexis
Mayhem	Derrick	Ongina	Shea	Mayhem
Mariah	Derrick	Ongina	India
Ongina	Derrick	Ongina
Derrick	Mayhem

  Top all star lost their lip sync against the assassin and so the elimination was decided by the group vote

  Top all star won their lip sync against the assassin and so the elimination was decided by their vote

  Top all star drew their lip sync against the assassin and both the group's vote and Top All Star's votes were taken into consideration. If both parties had chosen a different queen, then both queens were eliminated

Wanted to bring this here to have a discussion (and for fear of being chastised again) since I'm unsure of where the official Drag Race consensus chat is located. What are everyone's thoughts? --TheDevin13 (talk) 23:45, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

TheDevin13 I would support this an improvement on the new chart, which in itself was an improvement on the old chart. ≫ Lil-Unique1 -{ Talk }- 08:18, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

TheDevin13 I think this is much better however the colours of the legend should perhaps match the colours in the contestant progress?

Summary of contests voting history

	Episode
	1	2	3	4	5	6
Deciding vote	The Group	Shea Couleé	The Group	Miz Cracker The Group	Shea Couleé	The Group
Queen	Votes for elimination
Blair	Derrick	Ongina	Mariah	Mayhem	India	Alexis
Jujubee	Mayhem	Ongina	Mariah	Mayhem	India	Alexis
Miz Cracker	Derrick	Ongina	Mariah	Mayhem	India	Alexis
Shea	Derrick	Ongina	Mariah	Mayhem	India	Alexis
Alexis	Derrick	Ongina	Shea	Mayhem	India	Blair
India	Derrick	Ongina	Mariah	Mayhem	Alexis
Mayhem	Derrick	Ongina	Shea	Mayhem
Mariah	Derrick	Ongina	India
Ongina	Derrick	Ongina
Derrick	Mayhem

  Top all star lost their lip sync against the assassin and so the elimination was decided by the group vote

  Top all star won their lip sync against the assassin and so the elimination was decided by their vote

  Top all star drew their lip sync against the assassin and both the group's vote and Top All Star's votes were taken into consideration. If both parties had chosen a different queen, then both queens were eliminated

Badgerdog2 (talk) 21:56, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

Badgerdog2, TheDevin13, Nope, per WP:COLOUR you shouldn't use more than one shade of the same colour. ≫ Lil-Unique1 -{ Talk }- 09:27, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 21 July 2020

There should be another color (maybe a light purple) for the bottom All Stars like Alexis (ep. 5), Jujubee (ep. 5, 6) and Shea (ep. 6, 7) who performed well in the challenge and got good critiques but were still up for elimination. This must be counted in. The same for. Those are not mere bottom placements. Imastan (talk) 21:25, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit extended-protected}} template. I suggest discussing this request at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject RuPaul's Drag Race. – Jonesey95 (talk) 22:01, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

Table

The winner color should be that gold color, not yellow — Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.126.171.119 (talk) 21:23, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

Top All Star privilege: contestant progress table

Never before in Drag Race have contestants done well and landed in the bottom, and I don't see why we should disregard this new kind of placement and thus disregard contestants who have done well. The Dusted and Busted system will mean nothing from now on if bad and good performance is not discernible. Since all contestants received either a generally positive or negative critique after the installment of the new All Star rules, it would be sufficient to add to the tomato box description down under that the contestant received negative critiques, since that was also the case before the new rules, and keep it applied to the contestants who received negative critiques after the installment. The only other thing left to change is the coloration for the contestants who were up for elimination but received positive critiques: orange respects Wikipedia's accessibility rules and follows All Stars 1's contestant progress, that also had two kinds of "up for elimination" placements. Here's how the table should now look like:

Progress of contests including rank/position in each episode

Contestant	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8
Shea Couleé	SAFE	WIN	BTM3	SAFE	WIN	BTM4	BTM3	Winner
Jujubee	SAFE	HIGH	WIN	HIGH	BTM5	BTM4	BTM3	Runner-up
Miz Cracker	HIGH	SAFE	SAFE	WIN	BTM5	WIN	WIN	Runner-up
Blair St. Clair	SAFE	HIGH	HIGH	SAFE	BTM5	BTM4	ELIM	Guest
Alexis Mateo	HIGH	SAFE	SAFE	SAFE	BTM5	ELIM		Guest
India Ferrah	WIN	BTM3	BTM3	BTM2	ELIM			Guest
Mayhem Miller	BTM2	SAFE	HIGH	ELIM				Guest
Mariah Paris Balenciaga	SAFE	BTM3	ELIM					Guest
Ongina	LOW	ELIM						Guest
Derrick Barry	ELIM							Guest

  The contestant won RuPaul's Drag Race All Stars.

  The contestant was the runner-up.

  The contestant won the challenge and won the Lip Sync against the Lip Sync Assassin.

  The contestant won the challenge and tied in the Lip Sync against the Lip Sync Assassin.

  The contestant won the challenge, but lost the Lip Sync to the Lip Sync Assassin.

  The contestant received positive critiques and was ultimately declared safe or saved.

  The contestant received mixed critiques but was ultimately declared safe or saved.

  The contestant received negative critiques but was ultimately declared safe or saved.

  The contestant received positive critiques, was up for elimination and was ultimately declared safe or saved.

  The contestant received negative critiques, was up for elimination but was ultimately declared safe or saved.

  The contestant received negative critiques and was eliminated.

Gabrielrscott (talk) 03:39, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

References

Quotes

Per the essay Wikipedia:Quotations#General guidelines there is ample coverage in policies and guidelines concerning providing citations for quotations. There are several instances of unsourced quotations in the episode section (Farewell Message)s that need sourcing or removing. -- Otr500 (talk) 12:58, 23 July 2020 (UTC)

@Otr500: From my experience with working on TV shows in general the Episode tables usually don't have sources within the summary because the episodes themselves can be used as sources. Kinda redundant to have citations in the episode summary using Template:cite episode. I can add them since this is a reality TV show dealing with real people to ease any WP:BLP concerns. Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 23:29, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

Reply: Well, I do know that policy states: All material in Wikipedia mainspace, including everything in articles, lists and captions, must be verifiable. All quotations, and any material whose verifiability has been challenged or is likely to be challenged, must include an inline citation that directly supports the material. The BLP policy states: We must get the article right. Be very firm about the use of high-quality sources. All quotations and any material challenged or likely to be challenged must be supported by an inline citation to a reliable, published source. These two policies do not provide for proxy sourcing (even if it is listed "somewhere" else), but seem pretty clear and uncontroversial, so I would appreciate your suggestion being followed through. Thanks, -- Otr500 (talk) 08:08, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

Splitting articles

There is an issue of redundancy of an article presented at AFD. I think this could be resolved by trimming the section ("I'm In Love!") to some summary content then the link as a split, if the split article is deemed appropriate here.

RuPaul's Drag Race (season 5)#episodes is set up so this would be allowable without being an unnessary split. -- Otr500 (talk) 12:43, 23 July 2020 (UTC)

@Otr500: You wiki-linked to the regular season five but I understood what article you mean hehe. I usually don't do much work on this reality show in particular unless asked or it begins to appear over at WP:ER. I'll review the article in question under the proviso of WP:NPP guidelines. Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 23:32, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

@Alucard 16: Thank you, -- Otr500 (talk) 11:58, 26 July 2020 (UTC)