Talk:RuPaul's Drag Race All Stars season 3

Official fantasy league

With the announcement of an official fantasy league for this season, I think it's an important addition to the article however I'm unsure whether to give it its own subsection or just mention it in the lead? Source: [1] Brocicle (talk) 18:33, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

I think a subsection would be great if it had all their fantasy league scores. Devonruuurs (talk) 17:10, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

@Devonruuurs:I'm not overly familiar with how fantasy leagues work, so I'm assuming by scores you mean the point system? Or the actual scores of the participants? There is also a prize for the winner of the fantasy league as well according to the VH1 site. Brocicle (talk) 17:43, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

Thorgy's Ep. 1 Placement

Personally, I believed Thorgy's critiques in episode one were "HIGH", but this morning I came across two articles that recapped the episode, and both stated she was actually in the bottom. With that being said, are we still supposed to be citing sources for their placements like we did in season 9? Is Thorgy's placement actually supposed to be a "LOW"? Sources:https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/ev53jp/drag-race-all-stars-recap-silly-rabbit-trixies-for-kids http://www.vulture.com/2018/01/rupauls-drag-race-all-stars-recap-season-3-episode-1.html Asd17

All Stars is much easier to determine who is in the top and who is in the bottom as it's usually specifically stated by Ru hence the lack of sources. But I think it would be beneficial to add a reliable source to the table!

I also personally believe Thorgy to be classified in the bottom but that's my opinion. Brocicle (talk) 15:58, 26 January 2018 (UTC)

Rewatching the episode, it looks like she was a HIGH placement, but that's my opinion. She didn't get any negative critique from the main judges. Saying that, what other opinions and sources are out there? Maybe we all can come to a consensus. RiceKid (talk) 18:15, 26 January 2018 (UTC)

There are multiple sources claiming she was LOW and some claiming she was HIGH. We need to decide what we are going to do and what sources we are going to use for the citation. Brocicle (talk) 01:42, 3 February 2018 (UTC)

I'm fine with Thorgy being listed as "Safe" given the uncertainty around her placement, but Shangela should not be touched. Also, don't leave notes on the page until a consensus is reached. Nihlus 18:43, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

@Dallasansel: Brocicle (talk) 03:39, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

Thorgy don't received negative critiques from the panel, for that reason I think she placed HIGH like Shangela, if Thorgy was in the bottom Ru would have said it like Chi Chi at the episode two. GerryCreme (talk) 00:04, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

I respect what you're saying, but this is exactly why a bunch of editors labored for I think weeks to come up with the consensus guidelines at Talk:RuPaul's Drag Race#Request for comment: subjective claims of what someone would have said if this or that were different. The best way to insure accuracy when editors disagree on whether she was high or low is to say "safe." It's unquestionably accurate. --Tenebrae (talk) 00:09, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

We need must base ourselves on what was seen in the show, in this case Thorgy did not receive bad critiques, is HIGH. According to what we saw in the episode, we must put it in HIGH. I don't understand how Chi Chi was in the bottom 3 and many judges give her good critiques GerryCreme (talk) 00:31, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

Chi Chi bottom 3 at the episode two, many judges give her good ciritiques. GerryCreme (talk) 00:32, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

The thing is, if we all edit the page based on how "we" see the show, everyone is going to have different opinions, which Wikipedia is not based off of. It's based off of facts WITH credible sources. In order to be unbiased, all of us editing are using sources from multiple websites to come to a consensus to edit the page. That being said, because of how much differing sources placed Thorgy High and Low, we decided it was best to leave it as Safe, noting that she did receive some type of critique. Please stop trying to change it back because this is what led the page to being locked. If you feel strongly about your claims, please find sources from the internet first. Then we can discuss editing the page from there. RiceKid (talk) 00:56, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

"Thorgy joins them in the top, and she’s indeed very skilled with her violin." Ref https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/rupauls-drag-race-all-stars-3-episode-1-recap-which_us_5a6ba4b9e4b006be66080f08 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.141.202.185 (talk) 03:03, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

We are aware such sources exist; however, for every source that places her high, there is one that places her low. Since nothing was explicitly stated about her placement, we are not in a position to conduct WP:OR to put what we like there. Nihlus 03:21, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

If Thorgy was in the bottom RuPaul would have told her Thorgy you are in the bottom3, like Chi Chi at the episode two, for that reason and the fact that she received positive feedback, for that reasons she placed HIGH GerryCreme (talk) 13:56, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

Not necessarily. Not every episode does RuPaul specifically say who is bottom and who is top. If she was in the top there wouldn't be conflicting sources that are reliable, again, a neutral statement is the fairest way to go about it and seems to be the general consensus at this point. Brocicle (talk) 14:20, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

Top 2/All Stars vs Winners

@Brocicle: Aja and DeLa were declared the Top 2. DeLa was the only one declared a winner, although both won a prize. I'll be restoring my edits soon unless you find a source to back it up.

• TVLine: If you’re new to the game, here’s exactly how things work in Season 3: After each competition, the two top-scoring queens will face off in a lip-sync battle, with the winner deciding which of the bottom two queens will be sent home.
• NYTimes: BenDeLaCreme, doing daffy burlesque, was named top two with Aja, and they squared off in a spirited lip-sync to Nicki Minaj’s “Anaconda.”
• Instinct: After the judging, Aja and Ben turn out to be top two...

Additionally, Season 2 should be changed since I just rewatched those and they are referred to as the "Top All Stars of the Week". The only winner is the one who wins the LSFYL. This includes updating the progress tables. Nihlus 06:05, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

They both won the challenge hence winners and won the right to lip sync for their legacy, there's a separate line for the LSFYL winner in a different colour. I can't believe this is actually up for debate. Don't fix what isnt broken. Brocicle (talk) 06:47, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

No, Aja was never declared a winner. Your comment is pure WP:OR. Additionally, do not WP:CANVASS. Nihlus 06:56, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

If she was never a winner why does she have win next to her name in the table? My comment is not original research it's fact. If Aja didnt win she wouldn't have gotten a prize, something every challenge winner gets in both all stars seasons and regular seasons, which two queens have also won, the only difference is no LSFYL. Please read WP:ABDF, you are trying to change something which has no evidence of being an issue in the past with any regular contributor to the article. I've notified other regular contributors of this debarcle for their opinion. You can wait until the discussion has concluded to revert back to your edit, if that's what is decided.

And for your information I was not canvassing, I noticed you responded and decided to respond myself before continuing on my merry way of notifying regular contributors. Thanks Brocicle (talk) 07:07, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

Did RuPaul ever say to Aja "You are the winner of this weeks challenge"? No, she didn't, so you are merely performing WP:SYNTH. Everything else you said is irrelevant. Nihlus 07:12, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

If she didn't win she wouldn't have won anything. But again you're trying to fix something that isn't broken and has had no issues what so ever. Anyway I've said what i have to. Let other users respond if they wish, typical length for a discussion is a week so if by then a consensus has been reached feel free to either leave it how it is or change it depending on the outcome. Thanks. Brocicle (talk) 07:15, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

To be blunt, I'm asking for sources, not your opinion. If you find a source that states something different than the ones I listed, then I will gladly reconsider. Nihlus 07:18, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

Like this one? [2] And this one? [3] or how about this one from Aja herself? [4]Brocicle (talk) 07:34, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

Brocicle, Nihlus; I find the two 'WIN' templates of different colors to be an easy way to go about this. They both are specified to mean different things, indicating through the color and text (ones bold, ones not) and the key note below is there to indicate what means what. I agree with Aja winning a prize that she is declared the win along with DeLa, even if she didn't win the LSFYL, however, as I recall, RuPual does announce Aja and DeLa as the top two all stars of the week, so there is that difference we can go off from, if other users agree. So I'm open with either idea, whether we state the top two with 'WIN' in two different colors, or we state DeLa with the 'WIN' and dub Aja as 'TOP2' or something along those lines. MSMRHurricane (talk) 17:40, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

I think the table we have is a good way to show who were the winners of the main challenge, but that's my opinion. Anyone else? RiceKid (talk) 17:44, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

It should remain how it is, it's never been an issue for anyone in the past and again, there's no need to "fix" What actually isnt broken. General consensus so far is for it to remain. Brocicle (talk) 22:24, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

I agree. Both of the top two who Lipsync for their Legacy should be denoted WIN, and the queen who won gets a specific color and the one who lost gets a specific color.

I agree with @Nihlus: - Top 2 makes more sense than "Win" and makes it more easy for color-blind people to see at a quick glance who won the lipsync vs the other person who did best in the main challenge but did not win the lipsync. It's also supported by the sources cited. Goldcactus (talk) 11:22, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

Lead change for no Bebe in the cast Reveal

The article current says

The season was announced in August 2017, and the cast was revealed during a VH1 television special, entitled "Exclusive Queen Ruveal", which aired on October 20, 2017.

However, I'd like to see that tweeked to include the fact that BeBe Zahara Benet was *not* revealed in the special, but rather in Episode 1. Any ideas? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Naraht (talk • contribs) 21:05, 9 February 2018

Contestant Progress.

Needs to be updated. Milk was eliminated. With Chi Chi and Aja also in the bottom. Ben DaLa and Kennedy lip synced for their legacy. While Tricia was also in the top. Bebe and Shangela were safe. SoozLou (talk) 18:47, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

Thorgy Thor contestant progress

@GerryCreme: Changing Thorgy Thor's box from SAFE to HIGH seems OR/POV. On what is this based? I ask since, to avoid OR/POV, a consensus was reached on a set of objective criteria at Talk:RuPaul's Drag Race#Request for comment. Thank you for any additional information.--Tenebrae (talk) 21:48, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

There's a discussion above at #Thorgy's Ep. 1 Placement. Nihlus 21:50, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

@Nihlus: Thanks. Am I misreading that discussion, or does it say that different sources list her as LOW and HIGH and that the consensus for time being was to list her as SAFE? --Tenebrae (talk) 21:52, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

That is my interpretation. Nihlus 21:57, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

@Tenebrae:Some sources describe Thorgy as high and some describe her as low, all are considered reliable sources so due to the conflicting information, having it as safe with the cornsilk is the most neutral without adding our own personal opinions depending on which sources editors agree with. Brocicle (talk) 05:25, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

Knowledge in advance.

RuPaul's Drag race seems to most seasons release the first part of the episode on the official website part of the episode earlier in the day as a teaser. Not all the way to the end, but often at least through the runway. These are officially planned releases, so I believe that that information should be able to be filled in.Naraht (talk) 22:43, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

@Naraht: Anything officially released by WOW or VH1 can be added to the article. Nihlus 22:44, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

Special Guests should be its own section

The section of the article entitled "Special Guests" should be its own section. It does not relate to the section "Special Judges," as they are not judging the contestants. Also, "(in order of appearance)" should be changed to "(in order of their first appearance)" as both Alaska and Chad Michaels have both appeared in every episode to date.

--Travis H. O. (talk) 00:12, 2 March 2018 (UTC)

It's fine how it is. Brocicle (talk) 00:49, 2 March 2018 (UTC)

Hometowns

Where are the hometowns coming from? The confessionals in the episode don't seem to list them, and the "Exclusive Queen Ruveal" caption for Morgan's section says Los Angeles. Should her hometown be changed to L.A., or is there another source saying at the time of filming Morgan's hometown was Mira Loma? Umimmak (talk) 05:47, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

The confessionals do list them once when they have their first confessional of the episode along with their age. If there is confusion go with what the exclusive queen reveal states. Brocicle (talk) 07:21, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

Ah okay I see they also have confessionals with the age/hometown... I'm trying to find one for Morgan to see if it says Mira Loma or L.A., but I've only seen confessionals for her that were either the name/season or just the name or nothing at all. I was expecting to see it in Morgan's first confessional in the past episode but it didn't include a hometown like it did for the other contestants. I'll take other editors' words that at some point it actually said Mira Loma. Umimmak (talk) 07:54, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

The confessional for episode 7 says "Los Angeles, CA" not Mira Loma, so I'll change that. Umimmak (talk) 18:38, 6 March 2018 (UTC)

"Quit" vs. "self-eliminate"

Resolved

There seems to be some disagreement on this page as to whether Ben's departure is best described as "quitting" or "eliminating herself." Perhaps those with feelings on this subject could comment here. I will start by leaving my own thoughts.

I see important distinctions between the two terms, and I would describe them as follows:

• "Quitting" is an exit outside of the context of a challenge that does not affect the normal elimination process of the week. This would be exemplified by Adore's departure in AS2, where she walked out of the workroom, but Tatianna was nevertheless eliminated via the scheduled process the same week.

• "Self-eliminating" would be an exit through the outcome of an elimination challenge—in this case, Ben using the power vested in her as the challenge winner to choose herself as the queen to get the chop.

I therefore think it is more accurate to say that Ben self-eliminated. What do others think? Armadillopteryx^talk 15:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

No, she had the option to eliminate one of the bottom three. She wrote her name on Kennedy's lipstick and quit the competition (that wasn't an official option). Nothing was vested in her to eliminate anyone she wanted. If one of the bottom three walked out, they would also have been labeled as "quit" since that is what they are doing. Nihlus 15:45, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

Self-eliminating is a fancy way of saying she quit. However you say it it's the same. Quit is straight to the point and easier to see on the table at first glance considering those who may be partial to being colour blind may not be able to differentiate between the different shades with ELIM on them. Brocicle (talk) 15:46, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

She may have broken the rules, but she still left via the elimination process and was the week's eliminated queen. In contrast, Adore quit independently of the elimination process, and that week had a different eliminated queen. We could still use the shorthand "QUIT" in the table (or use "ELIM" on a different background for the benefit of colour-blind readers) while restoring the previous legend if consensus came to it. Armadillopteryx^talk 16:14, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

It doesn't matter how you spin it, she still quit the competition. Brocicle (talk) 16:18, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

A different queen did not pull her lipstick; therefore, she was not eliminated. She quit. Nihlus 16:25, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

It seems a bit like WP:OR for us editors to analyze this as quitting or not. This should be based on what reliable sources say. Here is the New York Times review; some other reviews have been already referenced. None of them describe DeLa's actions as "quitting" as far as I can tell. Umimmak (talk) 18:05, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

That's a very good point, and I would second this no matter what the sources called it. Armadillopteryx^talk 18:09, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

This isn't really up for debate as she was not given the power to eliminate anyone she wanted. She had a choice from the bottom three. She did not choose any of the and literally quit the show. You can call it self-elimination here or on the many blogs you will come across, you can say she "eliminated herself" on them too, but she left the competition outside of any normal means. She quit. That is not original research since the show itself is a primary source for that. Nihlus 18:15, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

The show didn't actually establish any language to describe what transpired. The descriptions come from reporters. I believe the point that Umimmak is making is very much that it's not up for debate, and that as Wikipedia editors we have to abide by policy and keep our own writing consistent with WP:RS like The New York Times. That and the other pages cited here are not private blogs or otherwise WP:PRIMARY sources. Armadillopteryx^talk 18:19, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

[5] [6] [7]. Additionally, verbiage such as "take herself out of the competition" is the same thing as saying she quit. She did not have the ability to eliminate anyone she wanted; no one else eliminated her; she quit. Why is this so difficult? Nihlus 18:28, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

I believe we should get an outside third opinion. I hardly believe it's original research since she was supposed to choose from those up for elimination and instead went home herself, ergo she quit. But again, an opinion from someone outside the frequent editors on the article should be beneficial. Brocicle (talk) 18:32, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

I disagree, and I also believe this is so trivial for others to be making a huge deal out of when it is clear as day. Nihlus 18:34, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

I began this thread because I think we need to establish an agreement—specifically because there have been several back-and-forth modifications of this detail in the article by at least five different editors already. If sources are divided on the terminology, then we should still arrive at a consensus here. My position remains that the semantic distinction between "quit" and "eliminated herself" is non-trivial and that "quit" is the less accurate alternative. However, if we cite some articles from WP:RS that use "quitting," I am not strictly opposed to that term. Armadillopteryx^talk 19:18, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

No, quit is more accurate; "self-eliminated" implies incorrectly that she had the choice to eliminate anyone in the competition, including herself and Bebe. We both know that is not the case. At no point in the competition are they told they can eliminate anyone or themselves. They certainly can quit, which is what she did. Just because she did it right when others are normally eliminated is irrelevant. Nihlus 19:22, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

It seems like the discrepancy between our interpretations of "to eliminate oneself" is a subjective one. I don't attach any insinuations not in the definitions of the component words to the phrase (e.g. assumptions about what her choices were). My preference for the term comes from its inclusion of the verb "to eliminate," since it refers back to the elimination process. But really, it's just a question of semantics at this point, so I think that the term most people prefer should be the one used (and sourced) in the article. If that term is "quit," I think some of the sources you provided should be included in the article's references. Armadillopteryx^talk 20:03, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

The biggest issue I have is that the table legend should distinguish DeLa's cell from Adore's cell in AS2 since DeLa also won the lip sync. That should be noted in the summary table's colour legend. I'll concede if there's consensus to use the word "quit" in and that TMZ / Junkee Media count as WP:RSs to support that claim. Hopefully the beginning of next episode offers some clarity. Umimmak (talk) 21:09, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

@Umimmak, Armadillopteryx, and Brocicle: Ignoring the edit warring going on with Dallasansel, I drafted some options in my sandbox. Let me know if any of those work. It's hard to find a color that sticks out but fits in at the same time. Nihlus 21:36, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

Out of these options, I like the dark slate gray the most. What about considering a shade of green as well? That might stand out more. Also, how shall we proceed to consensus? At the moment we are all in agreement that both "quit" and "self-eliminate" are acceptable per WP:RS, and this discussion contains two users partial to "quit" and two users partial to "self-eliminate." The thought occurred to me that, at least in the table itself, another option could be "LEFT." That contains neither the connotation of throwing in the towel (as "QUIT" does) nor ambiguity about who eliminated her (as "ELIM" does). Armadillopteryx^talk 23:50, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

I feel at this point there is an overwhelming support for using "ELIM" over "QUIT" with only one or two users opposed. I think the discussion should be closed with using "ELIM" as majority of sources are claiming that BenDeLaCreme "self-eliminated." Frankly, I feel this discussion has gone as far as it can and has come to a general consensus. Dallasansel 23:13, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

To be fair, up to now the preferences have been split 50/50. I'd like to hear everyone out. Armadillopteryx^talk 00:17, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

In general I don't have strong opinions on colour -- to me it's only important to distinguish when the text is the same. I think ideally I'd like to see the legend have both the colour and the text abbreviation in the legend to follow WP:COLOR guidelines, but that change would require consensus from editors for all RPDR (competition reality tv show?)s. @Nihlus: I see your sandbox legends just say The contestant quit the competition. -- I assume that's an oversight and it will also say this contestant won the Lip Sync for Your Legacy? @Armadillopteryx: that seems to be the case, but there are other editors like Dallasansel who seem to have opinions as well. And what to do for the Lip Sync summary table? Cause I prefer something like this version, over this one, but maybe with an added footnote saying she wrote the name herself. The Lip Sync table seems harder to find a middle ground than just alternate wording for the legend/cell. Umimmak (talk) 00:25, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

I also prefer a version of the lip sync table that indicates DeLa had her own name on the lipstick. And of course everyone with an opinion should have a say if they want to join. I chose the words "up to now" to refer to what had been said in the discussion before the first message by a new contributor :-) Armadillopteryx^talk 00:32, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

She quit, right? Eliminating herself was not really within the rules of the competition... ---Another Believer _(Talk) 00:20, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

It was outside of the rules but within the structure of the elimination process. I think that's more or less where people's interpretations have diverged. Armadillopteryx^talk 00:23, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

Yeah there'd be less debate if it couldn't have only happened if DeLa won the lipsync and if she didn't write her name on the elimination lip stick. Umimmak (talk) 00:30, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

Edit: and if Ru didn't say the "As it is written, so it shall be done" like for all the other eliminations. Umimmak (talk) 00:32, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

I see. Well, I don't mind "self-eliminate" or "eliminated herself" in the prose, but I think "quit" is shorter and easier for the "Contestant progress" table. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 00:31, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

I'm not sure how many times in needs repeating, but self-eliminations were not options. She could either eliminate one of the bottom three or quit the competition at any time. If she eliminated Kennedy and then she quit, would we be having this discussion? No, we wouldn't, because it is obvious that she quit. She was given no ability to eliminate herself officially as her lipstick was not in the box. She had her name because she wrote it on Kennedy's with Wite-Out. Saying she was eliminated implies that she was eliminated from the competition within the rules of the competition, which is not the case. @Umimmak: The sandbox is merely for color, not structure or anything else. Further, she was not in the bottom three and she was not up for elimination, so the lip-sync table has nothing to do with her or her quitting. Nihlus 02:15, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

That's your interpretation though, and its clear everyone has different views on this. She left through the format of the show and was told to "sashay away," those words mean "you have been eliminated," there is really no question about it. That fact is Ben didn't say she was quitting, in fact she has even said in interviews that she "eliminated herself." I feel it's very obvious that we should follow what majority of sources, and even Ben herself, are saying. Dallasansel (talk) 02:34, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

@Nihlus:We followed a majority of sources for other edits. What makes this one special? I agree with Dallasansel. RiceKid (talk) 04:56, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

@RiceKid: It's not a majority of sources, and even if it were, most are reporting on it incorrectly so many of them are unreliable from the start. Dallasansel It's not my interpretation; I watched the show and am going off of that as a primary source. Nihlus 01:27, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

If there are multiple reliable sources on both sides of the argument of Quit VS self eliminated then we must agree to a neutral option. Otherwise we're selectively choosing sources to suit our own point of view which is not appropriate. Brocicle (talk) 18:11, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

Proposal

It doesn't appear we'll all ever get onto a single page about which term is more accurate, and both terms appear in reliable sources. Would people accept the following proposed solution?

• Each person signs below to indicate which term they prefer.
• We use the terminology preferred by the majority in the progress table. No matter the term, we indicate through cell colour and legend that Ben won the lip sync and subsequently quit/eliminated herself.
  • Alternatively, we use "QUIT" in the cell and "self-eliminated" in its legend. People can specify "yes" or "no" to this next to their signature below; "no" defaults back to using the majority-preferred term in both instances.
• In the lip sync table, we put Ben's name into the parentheses to indicate that her name was on the lipstick, and in the table legend, we use the majority-preferred term to describe her exit.
• We incorporate both terms into the prose and do not make any further reverts on them.

I'll start. Armadillopteryx^talk 09:15, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

Has everyone who would like to vote already done so? Another Believer? Is there anyone else who has participated in the discussion but not voted? Dallasansel, shall I count your response to Ummimak's comment as your vote?

Abstaining is also fine; I'd just like to know before we move on to the next step. Armadillopteryx^talk 18:45, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

@Armadillopteryx I cast my vote in favor of using "ELIM" in a different color to clarify that it was a self-elimination on the contestant progress table along with adding that Ben self-eliminated on the lip sync table as well for the simple fact that even Ben herself says she "self-eliminated." Dallasansel (talk) 19:35, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

Okay :-) Armadillopteryx^talk 19:54, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

Prefer quit

• I would rather have quit in the contestant progress table as it is straight to the point but coloured and noted differently to Adore's AS2 departure to reflect the difference. Brocicle (talk) 18:11, 4 March 2018 (UTC)
• Quit is the most accurate term as she did quit the competition, whatever the circumstances were or the way she went about it. MSMRHurricane (talk) 19:52, 4 March 2018 (UTC)
• Quit. She had her name on the lipstick because she wrote it on there. Not sure why this bears repeating ten times. Nihlus 01:21, 5 March 2018 (UTC) Nihlus 01:21, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

Prefer eliminated herself

• Armadillopteryx^talk 09:15, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

• I prefer having the lipsync table show DeLa had her own name on the lipsync and had "BenDeLaCreme" instead of "None" in the Eliminated column. DeLa's departure from the show had the same format: Happening after winning a lipsync, being written on a lipstick, Ru saying "As it is written, so it shall be done." The version as currently written Since BenDeLaCreme quit the competition, none of the bottom three were eliminated that week. is misleading, imho, since this isn't like S4E8 ("In light of tonight's events, you got lucky") or S5E9 ("Ladies, there has been too much loss here tonight.") where there was a comment on why there was no "standard" removal of a contestant. Trixie/Kennedy/Shangela weren't saved because someone quit (no one was saved when Adore quit); they were saved because DeLa eliminated herself in their stead. Umimmak (talk) 20:19, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

@Umimmak I couldn't agree more, and others should too. I feel the right option is very obvious. Dallasansel (talk) 21:53, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

It's not "obvious" in the way you think because her lipstick wasn't an option for her to pick. And the bottom three were saved because she quit. Nihlus 01:23, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

@Nihlus Multiple interviews of the participants in the competition and the competitor herself all stated Ben eliminated herself. Are those who compete on the show not a verified source? I have watched and read countless interviews and they all said she eliminated herself. RiceKid (talk) 04:05, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

Eliminated herself = self-eliminated = quit = left the show = "I'm going home". She had no ability to eliminate herself so saying so is incorrect. (Eleventh time this has been said.) Nihlus 04:08, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

@Nihlus she did indeed have the power to eliminate herself, as she demonstrated in the episode. Not to mention for the 30th time, Ru says "As it is written so it shall be done," meaning "you have been eliminated." It's very simple, the most reliable source is BenDeLaCreme herself, and she says she "self-eliminated." Not sure why this is still up for discussion when everything should be very clear for all editors here. Dallasansel (talk) 13:19, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

@Dallasansel: she did indeed have the power to eliminate herself, as she demonstrated in the episode - no, she didn't. She literally did not. Nihlus 15:54, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

@Nihlus:,@Dallasansel: move this discussion to the appropriate section. Armadillopteryx created this subsection in the proposal for us to state our preference not for more arguing. Brocicle (talk) 13:23, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

@Nihlus I was stating my preference, and if this is "arguing" it seems you are doing the same. Anyways, I have stated why "ELIM" should be used and that's all I have to say. Dallasansel (talk) 13:29, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

• I think it needs to be stated it was an elimination. If everyone on the show and the queen herself said she self-eliminated, then why are we trying to redefine it? We could still have the table reflect the result. That's why we have special endnotes for certain events. Saying she "quit" doesn't fully justify the result, in my opinion. Plus, the other queens of the competition and countless sources state she eliminated herself. RiceKid (talk) 04:09, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

Closing discussion

In an exclusive 10 minute preview of the next episode we can clearly see the show referring to DeLa's departure as a self-elimination. [8] This discussion should be closed and I will be changing the information in the article to reflect what the show has stated. Brocicle (talk) 16:52, 6 March 2018 (UTC)

Yes, I think that settles it. Armadillopteryx^talk 17:19, 6 March 2018 (UTC)

This most definitely settles it, no room for argument. Dallasansel (talk) 18:57, 6 March 2018 (UTC)

Just for the record, in case anyone can't view the video, the show's graphics literally says After BenDeLaCreme's Self-Elimination at the start of Episode 7. I can't imagine how there could possibly continue to be a lack of consensus at this point. Umimmak (talk) 09:22, 7 March 2018 (UTC)

No, it does not "settle it". She quit the competition and that is that. Take it up with WP:DR if you like, but you are essentially creating WP:OR. Nihlus 08:53, 7 March 2018 (UTC)

Actually, I give up. You lot can have your ridiculous Fandom wikia and misinformation spreading all you like. Go ahead and waste other people's time from now on. Nihlus 09:03, 7 March 2018 (UTC)

@Nihlus: The show literally calls it a self-elimination, that is not OR. If you continue I will gladly open a dispute resolution case. Brocicle (talk) 10:25, 7 March 2018 (UTC)

@Brocicle: Please don't ping me to this discussion again. Nihlus 14:39, 7 March 2018 (UTC)

Not to mention in the finale DeLa was included among the "eliminated girls". It is completely false to say this is "WP:OR", or "ridiculous Fandom wikia" or "misinformation spreading". Umimmak (talk) 22:00, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

Thoughts?

@Brocicle:; for the purpose of remaining as a team player, I think the QUIT template for DeLa this season can go two ways: first being the same color we used for Adore Delano in the previous season, when it comes down to facts, DeLa did quit the show in the end, regardless of how she did it, or how she went out, she did quit the show. So if we use the same color for DeLa as we did for Adore, the key note should simply read "the contestant quit the competition", as that is what that particular color stands for. Or second, if we want to state "the contestant won the challenge and the LSFYL but quit the competition", as it was noted before, the color should be changed. The text can remain the same (QUIT), as stated above, but the color should be altered as it becomes a different template entirely. Thoughts? MSMRHurricane (talk) 03:28, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

It absolutely should not be the same colour as Adore's AS2 cell, regardless of if you think DeLa "quit" or "eliminated herself". Adore didn't win the lip sync for your legacy; DeLa did. That should be reflected in the episode summary. Umimmak (talk) 04:34, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

There needs to be some type of label that shows Ben won the lip sync and used the power to eliminate herself. The episode summary also states she "eliminated" herself. We should keep it consistent with the episode summary that was provide since it is a source that is being used. But that's my opinion. RiceKid (talk) 04:53, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

A bit earlier, I mentioned that another option for the table could be to use "LEFT" instead of "QUIT" or "ELIM" to remove any ambiguity from the cell. Its edit summary could accordingly reflect that DeLa won the LSFYL and subsequently eliminated herself/quit/left. Does that idea appeal to anyone? Armadillopteryx^talk 08:56, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

Like I said, there are a few options for this situation. Bottom line however, DeLa did quit the competition, no matter how you put it or what circumstances unfolded. I feel the word QUIT is most accurate on the table, but if the current colour is to be used, the note should simply read "the contestant quit the competition" seeing as it's the same as Adore's situation. But if anyone feels the need and want to state that DeLa won the challenge and lip sync but quit the competition, then please use a different colour - most preferably within the same range as the current colour, to have consistency. MSMRHurricane (talk) 19:51, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

@Armadillopteryx: I'm fine with anything other than ELIM in the table. LEFT/QUIT/JUMPED/BOUNCED, I don't care. Nihlus 01:29, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

Episode 8 in contestant summary table: guests or jurors?

@727deluxe and MSMRHurricane: and others let's discuss whether the jurors in episode 8 be listed as jurors or simply as guests ([9], [10]). I'm personally sympathetic towards not making it consistent with the other Drag Race pages as the returning eliminated queens had a drastically different role in this season compared to others and it is inaccurate to just say they were "guests". Umimmak (talk) 21:55, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

I personally don't mind either way, even though the previous edit ('JURORS') made the table look messy. However, I do agree that a different label and template should be implemented as they did have a role to play rather than just being present. Until a final decision has been made, they should just remain as 'Guest' as it should be in keeping with other Drag Race pages. But, I'm all for a different template when everyone else has had a say. MSMRHurricane (talk) 22:46, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

My preference would be to label them as jurors, as they had a function that influenced the outcome of the competition—quite differently to other seasons where the eliminated queens were only ceremonially present at the finale. If we do introduce this change into the table, I would suggest stylizing the cell text as "Juror" (not "JUROR"), since that "status" is not a consequence of the week's challenge. Armadillopteryx^talk 01:27, 17 March 2018 (UTC)

Seeing as no one else has thrown in their opinion, I think we could take the next step in this edit, and settle on 'Juror' being the text on the table, the note description reading something along the lines of "the contestant participated in a jury to determine the top two for the final lip sync" - something along those lines - and a colour change to differentiate the label, seeing as it is a completely brand new template. MSMRHurricane (talk) 00:13, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

I understand this was from many months ago, but seeing as it was never changed and as no one is against it I’m going to change “Guest” to “Juror.” Dallasansel (talk) 21:26, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

3rd/4th

Bebe and Shangela were both eliminated before the final showdown and so tied in that sense and share the placement, but based on the reveal video that was uploaded afterward of the eliminated queens picking lipsticks, would it possibly be more appropriate to place Bebe solely in 3rd and Shangela solely in 4th based on the number of points/votes they got? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.138.111.198 (talk) 01:38, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

WIN/ELIM in progress table

An anonymous IP has edited the cell for DeLa's self-elimination to say WIN/ELIM [11]. My reflexes nearly led me to revert it since there was no consensus for that change. However, in light of the discussion that was had over that cell ... I actually don't think this is a bad edit at all. It's more descriptive of what occurred. Should we leave it like this? Armadillopteryx^talk 17:50, 17 April 2018 (UTC)

No it should remain as ELIM. It wasn't WIN/DISQ for Willam, it's unnecessary to add to the table. Brocicle (talk) 17:59, 17 April 2018 (UTC)

It should still be a different colour with a corresponding legend note to denote it wasn't just an elimination but that she also won the challenge and the lip sync. I thought that's what we originally had a while ago -- not sure when it got changed to be like every other elimination where they didn't win the challenge/lip sync. Umimmak (talk) 18:42, 17 April 2018 (UTC)

As far as I can see, it is still a different color with its own legend; the only change this IP made was to add "WIN/" before "ELIM" in the cell. Or what change are you referring to? Maybe I haven't understood. Armadillopteryx^talk 18:54, 17 April 2018 (UTC)

I misread the table, sorry! Umimmak (talk) 19:59, 17 April 2018 (UTC)

Placement.

Someone needs to fix the bracket to show that Morgan went home first because it shows differently. Youindangergirl (talk) 18:11, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

RfC on table

See Wikipedia talk:WikiProject RuPaul's Drag Race#RfC: Proposed progress table for all RPDR shows. Gleeanon409 (talk) 01:08, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

BeBe's Lipstick Choices

Now it's clear that BeBe chose Trixie to be eliminated, but where was confirmed that she chose Morgan to return? ♤MS♤ 16:47, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

Aja is assuming Bebe's choice. A lot of people think she voted for Trixie. Bebe, herself, has never confirmed it so why are we adding it to the wiki?? Devonruuurs (talk) 17:57, 7 July 2020 (UTC)