Talk:Royal Horse Guards

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Lineage

@Robinvp11 and Urselius: Hi, I saw the user talk conversation and thought I'd centralise some discussion here. I see there's debate over just where the lineage of the RHG begins and with what unit. I quote from some sources that associate the RHG with Colonel Unton Crook's Regiment of Horse. Is this a separate regiment to that of Haselrig?

"This is the only Cavalry Regiment now extant which formed part of the Parliamentary Army against Charles I, being then known as Colonel Unton Crook's Regiment"^[1]

"Very shortly after the Restoration, the King, glad of the opportunity to acquire some additional trustworthy troops, had adopted as his own Colonel Unton Crook's cavalry regiment, which, under the new title of "the Royal Regiment", was officered by a number of the King's personal friends and most devoted adherents...The corps thus reformed was destined, however, to be strangled in its birth, for early in December following, after an existence of less than six months, it was disbanded in its turn at Bath.
Only two months then elapsed before the Earl of Oxford's Regiment of Horse, to consist of eight troops was raised by the royal warrant of January 26th, 1661. Twenty days later, on February 16th, 1661, in Tothill fields...was held the Regiment's first muster....Of the officers it is evident that a large proportion of those who had served first under Unton Crook and then in the Royal Regiment, finally found their places in the muster roll of the corps ultimately known as the Royal Horse Guards (Blue)"^[2]

"Origin of the Blues: At the time of the Restoration of the Monarchy in the person of King Charles II, orders were given for the disbandment of the whole of the Standing Army, which had proved such a menace to the liberty of the subject in Cromwellian days. But, before these orders could be completely carried out, the need of a permanent armed force of some sort became apparent, and consequently certain corps merely went through the formal act of laying down their arms and immediately taking them up again. Among these was Colonel Unton Crook's Regiment of Horse; and the Blues claim direct descent from this regiment"^[3]

Packe's An historical record of the Royal Regiment of Horse Guards and Legge-Bourke's The Queen's Guards seem to say similarly but I'll stop my wall of text here..! Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 16:17, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Farmer, John S. (1984) [1901]. The Regimental Records of the British Army. Bristol: Crecy Books. p. 5. ISBN 0 947554 03 3.
^ Arthur, George (1909). The Story of the Household Cavalry. Vol. 1. London: Archibald Constable. pp. 27–28.
^ Howard-Vyse, R. G. H. (1924). "The British Household Cavalry". The Cavalry Journal. 33 (137): 399.

At the time, and for quite a long period after, regiments were named after their colonel, whoever that was at any particular time. Haselrig was arrested after Parliament declared the restoration of Charles II, he died in the Tower in 1661. Therefore, he could not have continued in command of his regiment, though I can find no evidence of Unton Crook having taken over. Urselius (talk) 17:13, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

See here for Unton Croke's colonelcy of the 'Blues' at the restoration and their origins as Haselrig's cuirassiers (p. 61 for Croke's colonelcy and use by General Monck): https://books.google.co.uk/books?hl=en&lr=&id=hP7yDpMGiEMC&oi=fnd&pg=PR8&dq=%22Haselrig%22+%22Royal+Horse+Guards%22&ots=CMMKF_IrxH&sig=0uVm9BDq1bEsyYtuqU12oqUd0JE#v=onepage&q=%22Haselrig%22%20&f=false

Fairly conclusive. Urselius (talk) 17:32, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Right. Reading "Sir Arthur Haselrig - he of 'Haselrig's Lobsters' fame - raised the Blues from the northern counties on 29 August 1650" (p. 40) seems to lean towards a differentiation between the Lobsters and this new cavalry regiment. I don't see White-Spunner identifying any link.

What does appear clear is that from 1650 this regiment is led by Haselrig. James Berry replaces him in 1651, followed by Croke in 1660. At the Restoration he is replaced by Daniel O'Neill who is in command when the regiment is disbanded as the Royal Regiment and re-raised as the Earl of Oxford's Regiment, with O'Neill commanding the King's troop in it. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 17:44, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Have just found that Croke's article exists at Unton Croke (died 1694). Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 18:10, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Farmer, John S. (1984) [1901]. The Regimental Records of the British Army. Bristol: Crecy Books. p. 5. ISBN 0 947554 03 3.

[2] Arthur, George (1909). The Story of the Household Cavalry. Vol. 1. London: Archibald Constable. pp. 27–28.

[3] Howard-Vyse, R. G. H. (1924). "The British Household Cavalry". The Cavalry Journal. 33 (137): 399.

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