Talk:Roy Jones Jr./Archive 1

Archive 1

Untitled

In the end of the intro, it says in roys last amatuer fight he was knocked out in the third round. dose this other fighter have a wiki? ive searched but cant find anything. provide some info about this, i just find it a little improbable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.94.118.52 (talk) 00:58, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

This article from a Korean online newspaper contains an interesting quote:

"...it took more than 10 years for American boxer Roy Jones Jr. to get the gold medal back from South Korean Park Shi-heon after a judging controversy at the 1988 Seoul Olympics."

This makes it sound as if Roy Jones Jr. got the gold retroactively, yet there seems to be no evidence of this anywhere else. What's the real story?

http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/sports/200409/kt2004092216573211620.htm

He didn't get the gold, but he was awarded a gold olympic order, a special reward by the IOC. Jeronimo 08:41, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Promotors had contacted Park to see if he would agree to appear at one of Roy's first fights, and ceremoniously trade him the gold medal (which he clearly deserved) for the silver he had been awarded. At first Park agreed, but then apparently he received pressure from his countrymen, and he backed out. The ceremonial trade never came off. Bigdatut (talk) 19:54, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

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This article has taken on an immensely POV side, just like I used to write articles three years ago as a rookie Antonio The Winner by Split decisioon!!! Martin 12:18, 1 Oct 2005 (UTC)

Specify pov please - in what way, where? He's arguably one of the best boxers ever, I would think its hard to not sound pro-Roy when writing about him. Is that what you meant?KillerChihuahua 10:30, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

• Look, anything you use an exclamation point on looks POV. Encyclopedias should not use exclamation points

Ridiculous use of POV in the article. He is largely unheard of outside the USA. Nobody knows him. What is a 'pound for pound' boxer ? Why did he never fight Collins ? None of these things are explored in the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.166.15.246 (talk) 14:59, August 28, 2007 (UTC)

It's REALLY hard to sound anti-jones, since he REALLY is one of the greatest boxers! Definately one of the best.

Well I'm anti Jones since he failed a drug test for steriods and paid the fine. No denial he just paid the fine. Thats why boxing so needs a national boxing commission. He was caught and fined, in a big boxing state he would have been banned. If there was any justice Jones would have been banned.

This article doesn't mention things like Mike McCallums age or Pazienza being way out of his division and past his best. Roy Jones was an awesome fighter but there was a long stretch in his career that was just padding.

Playing basketball and boxing on the same day...

The article says that he played for the Jacksonville Barracudas and defended his lightheavyweight title on the same day... in fact it was his IBF supermiddleweight title (against Eric Lucas)... so I'm just making that minor alteration, mmkay?FlyBang 22:56, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

What controversy??

The article references a controversy without mentioning it previously. What controversy??? KristoferM 02:07, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

I have to agree. He dodged Collins. PalX 01:33, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Music career

Anyone remember he started the Body Head Bangerz, and had a few big hits with that? Zchris87v 18:48, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Dogfighting Controversy

jmfangio keeps removing convtroversial statements made by him in reference to michael vick. nobody posted any opinion or biased statements but he keeps initiating revert wars and deleting factual statements. They were in the news a lot and are highly relevent to his bio. Just like we put up controversial statements by politicians and other celebrities. See Keith Hernanez's bio - we have put up his controversial comments about women and baseball. The bottom line is these statements are not at all biased and belong on his page. Please stop violating wikipedia policy by revert deleting them. Feel free to change how they are presented but they belong on the page. See Wiki policy:

"Be respectful to others and their points of view. This means primarily: Do not simply revert changes in a dispute. When someone makes an edit you consider biased or inaccurate, improve the edit, rather than reverting it. Provide a good edit summary when making significant changes that other users might object to. The revision you would prefer will not be established by reverting, and repeated reverting is forbidden; discuss disputed changes on the talk page. If you encounter rude or inappropriate behavior, resist the temptation to respond unkindly, and do not make personal attacks."

I emphasize the policy on refraining from reversions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gtown05 (talk • contribs) 04:55, August 29, 2007 (UTC)

Possibly Best Pound for Pound All Time?

I don't know of a single boxing expert that picks Jones Jr. as best of all time. Most would not even pick him as best in his own weight division. He could possibly be the best accordion player of all time also. This statement is useless and misleading.12.105.154.103 22:16, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

When I search Roy Jones it takes me to one page, but then if I click on discussion and then back to the article, the introduction is considerably different. I'm a wiki newb but what is up with this? I agree with the intro that cites Robinson as the concensus p4p, its much more accurate, if not as well written.12.105.154.103 03:04, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

As far as I know, pound for pound is nothing more than a concocted term by some magazine. One cannot say that pound for pound is factual because it isn't. A made up expression with no relevance or intrinsic value is all. As Jones did not fight Collins, shouldn't this get mentioned in the article. Most people outside USA who actually know a bit about boxing reckon he was simply wasn't good enough and dare one say it afraid to do so. There's enough substance in this instance to merit inclusion given the plethora of insubstantial rhetoric in this article. Wikipedia makes him sound invincible and is not accurate as an encyclopaedic article in doing so. Jones is a good boxer but nowhere near the legendary status one would take from reading about him on Wiki. Rewrite sensibly please and properly. PalX 01:28, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Theres no mention of who other fighters did not fight including Calzaghe's page(your agenda), and why he didnt fight collins. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.94.118.52 (talk) 10:11, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

I think the article should have a Fighting Style section. Portillo (talk)

picture seems odd

For a boxer, best known for being a very successful fighter, doesn't a photo of him holding two machine guns as his primary photo seem a little out of place? Just my two cents. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Edcoxflorida (talk • contribs) 08:18, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

I concur. Seems to violate WP:BLP oknazevad (talk) 15:54, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

015.07.2009 super —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.149.55.59 (talk) 01:39, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Agreed. First time visiting the article and it made me laugh immediately. Dancindazed (talk) 15:26, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

Jones was losing the Calzaghe fight before he got cut

Calzaghe section is currently biased towards Calzaghe: "Calzaghe resumed control almost immediately and **dominated Jones like nobody ever had before. Toying with Jones and mocking him from ring center,** daring Jones to try and hit him and then countering with blinding combinations." I'm a Calzaghe fan but Roy was not "dominated", he remained competitive despite a huge cut.

Also Roy's corner was capable at handling cuts, and they did so as best they could given the nature of the cut, allowing Roy to continue fighting until the end of the match. The current wording makes Roy's corner sound incompetent, which they weren't, it's not like they'd never seen a cut fighter before. If you watch the fight on youtube, you can see them treating it properly, but Roy kept getting hit there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 187.146.253.202 (talk) 05:54, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

The article currently reads: "Blood covered the left side of Jones' face, impairing his vision. But he still went on, and fought the remaining five rounds with one good eye. This led to the unanimous verdict of all three judges at ringside who gave Calzaghe a 118 to 109 decision." I changed this to: "In the end all three judges at ringside gave Calzaghe a 118 to 109 decision", with the comment that Jones was losing the fight before round seven. Assuming no rounds were won by two points, Calzaghe lost two rounds, won nine rounds and drew one. I therefore don't see how you can say that the cut in round seven led to the verdict. Even if Calzaghe won all of the remaining five rounds, that means he won four rounds to Jones' two in rounds 1-7. I really don't see therefore how it can be said that the cut led to the verdict. To say it led to the verdict seems to be leading the reader, without a reference in support (and arguably against the evidence we do have of the judges' scorecards). "In the end" seems more neutral to me. Why was it changed back? --Merlinme (talk) 13:11, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

User 69.136.103.9 Special:Contributions/69.136.103.9 constantly edits this page to make it appear more favourable to RJJ. He reverted your edit (MerlinMe) and one I made in July that was entirely valid. I don't want to get into an edit war as I only dabble in Wikipedia editing, but - had to be said. Ubertoaster (talk) 10:29, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

The same user: 69.136.103.9 Special:Contributions/69.136.103.9 keeps wrecking this page. Can the powers that be please do something? I assume you need to be some sort of admin.Ubertoaster (talk) 02:05, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

His record posted is wrong. He wasn't 49-0. They've missed the Griffin loss (by DQ) when he was 34-0. Sorry I would fix it but don't know how. His record is now 7 losses, not 6.

The truth is that Jones absolutely had no chance against Calzaghe. Jones didn't hit him with a "perfectly timed shot". He hit him with his wrist or lower forearm, this is why Calzaghe was cut. From at least round three on, Jones was totally outclassed. Calzaghe was touching Jones' gloves with his head, peeking through Jones' defense - but Jones was way too slow to hit him. Calzaghe completely dominated the fight. I'll start correcting this article soon.

Danny Green just knocked him out in round one. No reason to look for excuses. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.147.175.180 (talk) 21:55, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Random opinions

"But Jones appeared a lot weaker than he had in the past after coming down in weight. Losing 25 pounds of muscle seemed to take a great toll on Jones' 34 year old body"

Is this too opinionated? I know the author used words like 'appeared' and 'seemed' but it looks like it's written in a factual way. I dunno, maybe it's just me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.254.146.52 (talk) 13:19, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

It is incorrect. Roy Jones routinely weighed 189-195 pounds on fight night when he competed at teh 175 pound limit. He only wieghed 199 for Ruiz. That means he gained/lost only 7 pounds of muscle. Not 25. It is incorrect and scientifically impossible. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kocurt (talk • contribs) 01:07, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

What a peculiar article. It's as though someone has went through each paragraph inserting weird compliments. Asking for references would be redundant, of course, since all that means on Wikipedia is that someone already believes something, and then desperately searches for a tenuous support from an obscure website. Examples:

"As one of the best pound for pound boxers of all time, Jones is also acknowledged as being one of the most physically gifted athletes in the history of the sport." "Jones displayed a lot of heart in this fight, and had to dig deep to secure the win." "Jones had to walk through fire in the later rounds and demonstrated lots of courage to finish the fight on his feet." "A testimony to Jones' greatness."

I could quote pretty much the whole section under 'Personal Life' for a hilarious unencylopaedic approach to writing, but it seems like a waste of time at this point. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.123.217.226 (talk) 07:18, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

I see an admin has now taken an interest and 'semi-protected' this article. Hopefully it'll be possible to at least make some progress towards fixing it now, as it's still horribly broken.Ubertoaster (talk) 17:19, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Roy Jones Edits

Please stop changing/reverting edits to say Jones lost 25 pounds of muscle to fight Tarver. This is SCIENTIFICALLY impossible. Please reference the American Medical Associations article on "Weight Shedding" that state a 14% loss of muscle mass would be fatal in most cases. Jones routinely weighed in at 185-195 pounds on fight night when he competed as a heavywieght which is verified by the Nevada Athletic Commissions fight records as well as HBO. Jones only gained 7 pounds to compete at the heavyweight limit against John Ruiz. Therefore, he only lost that same 7 pounds. The 25 pounds claim is a total weight loss and includes water mass/weight. Please reference numerous medical and sports related articles on the practice of shedding 14-16% total body weight through dehydration by wrestlers/boxers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kocurt (talk • contribs) 01:05, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Clean up

This article has been partially cleaned up by a member of the WP:GOCE. Tone: Wikipedia is not the place for ringside style commentary. Spelling and grammar corrections have been made. Removed: WP:PEACOCK terms, some of the WP:WEASEL words, most of the WP:PUFFERY, and unsupported claims. Unsourced, possibly contentious sections have also been removed per WP:BLP. The personal life section is unsourced and may be removed entirely by any editor. --Kudpung (talk) 06:28, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Dldarrow, 28 March 2011

typo in the sentence:

Jones began as a professionam

should read:

Jones began as a professional Dldarrow (talk) 14:04, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Done—Bility (talk) 15:42, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Dldarrow, 28 March 2011

Typo:

Toney himself would reveal in an interview with Ring maazine that he

should read: Toney himself would reveal in an interview with Ring magazine that he

Dldarrow (talk) 14:07, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Done—Bility (talk) 15:42, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Ducking opponents

Due to his penchant for taking the easy fight in his prime-Benn, Collins, Michalzewski, Hopkins rematch, He did fight Toney and mediocre Ruiz. 24.239.153.58 (talk) 17:06, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Personal life

Is there any references to back up most of the story in this section? It seems a little odd that not even basic information such as his marriage or more family members are added aside from a longer description with no references supporting its events?

This sentence also seems out of place:

'There's no way to know whether or not Jones would have become a world champion fighter without this extremely punitive upbringing, but there's little question it toughened the young man.'

Kasow187 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 10:24, 28 September 2011 (UTC).

Okay

This dude lives a few block away from my house,maybe I can get some info. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.71.62.59 (talk) 21:11, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

That won't really work. Your personal accounts wouldn't qualify as a reliable source. You might want to read up on WP:V. In short, your personal accounts would be "too easy to fake". Nothing against you, it would be the same for anyone. Sergecross73 msg me 21:28, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

Edit request on 17 January 2012

Notable divisions:

Heavyweight Cruiserweight Ligh Heavyweight Super Midleweight Midleweight Light Midlweight 178.37.73.193 (talk) 19:12, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Not done for now: Sorry but I can't understand what you're asking. I note the divisions you've listed are presently listed under "Rated at" in the infobox. Adrian J. Hunter^{(talk•contribs)} 03:29, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

I guess User:Dogfacebob fulfilled your request in this edit. Adrian J. Hunter^{(talk•contribs)} 06:48, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 23 May 2012

Fight against Dawid Kostecki Poland! 81.219.120.167 (talk) 15:50, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

• Could you be more specific about what edit your requesting to have made? Feel free to re-open the request once you have. Monty₈₄₅ 04:21, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 3 July 2012

64 fights 56 win

178.37.81.26 (talk) 09:22, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Ryan Vesey Review me! 13:25, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 17 July 2012

Why is this page locked? It seems as though this along with a few other boxers pages seem to be going this route(Marvin Hagler), not very helpful when new editors wish to help clean up bits. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.236.54.18 (talk) 19:41, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

Missing: Roy Jones Jr. was awarded a rare and extremely respectable Olympic Order medal for the unfair decision of 1988 Olympic boxer game somewhere in 1997(?). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.131.18.247 (talk) 21:34, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Language/content?

Much of the entry is terribly florid, with phrases like "Over the course of the 12-round unanimous decision, Jones demonstrated his greatness. He danced circles around Toney..." and is lacking in citations as well.

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Roy Jones Jr./Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

"Had Jones been in his prime Tarver and Johnson wouldn't win a round." This seems to be a very biased thing to say as mentioned in the article.

Last edited at 06:44, 27 January 2008 (UTC). Substituted at 15:42, 1 May 2016 (UTC)