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Talk:Roy Harper (singer)

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Requested move 19 May 2017

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) —Guanaco 07:58, 17 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Roy Harper → Roy Harper (singer) – I don't think the singer is the primary topic. Besides, the DC Comics character (who was created before the singer became famous) has gained more readership as seen here: [https://tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews/?project=en.wikipedia.org&platform=all-access&agent=user&range=latest-20&pages=Roy_Harper Kailash29792 (talk) 17:31, 19 May 2017 (UTC) --Relisting. GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 21:46, 27 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose - I can't argue with the page stats, however the same information provided on 'Primary topic' also states that "historical age is not determinative", and I believe the singer is more known and significant globally than the comic book character. "A topic is primary for a term, with respect to long-term significance, if it has substantially greater enduring notability and educational value than any other topic associated with that term" - I would suggest the singer has that 'greater enduring notability and educational value'. There are other stats that may be used, one of which is 'Incoming wikilinks from Special:WhatLinksHere' and there are more to Harper the singer than the comic book character FWIW. Again, using the 'modified Google search string eliminates personal search bias' and results in more results for the singer and I believe a 'general audience' are more likely to have heard of the singer than the character. Stephenjh (talk) 18:10, 19 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose — From the singer's article:
  • "Neil McCormick of The Daily Telegraph described him as 'one of Britain's most complex and eloquent lyricists and genuinely original songwriters... much admired by his peers' ... In 2005, Harper was awarded the MOJO Hero Award, and in 2013 a Lifetime Achievement Award at the BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards. ".
From the DC character's article:
  • "In 2013, ComicsAlliance ranked Harper as #50 on their list of the '50 Sexiest Male Characters in Comics'."
With respect to long-term historical significance, there seems to be no contest.--Ilovetopaint (talk) 19:14, 19 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Reluctant support. I'd never heard of the comic book character, and at first I thought this move request was madness. Then I looked into the readership figures, the incoming links, and the Google results. The comic book character gets almost four times more readers than the singer, just edges on incoming links, and - if taking out the recent sexual allegations reported in the newspapers - has around the same Google results. While I agree with the opposes on the singer's significance, I have to recognise that is a personal preference. I suspect that for many of those seeking the comic book character, the singer has little or no significance (let's be frank here, respected he may be, well known he is not). I see no educational benefit on making those who want the comic book character to visit the singer's page first, then have to click through to the disamb page before clicking through again to find what they want. At this point we don't even know how many of the average 400 a day visiting Roy Harper actually want the singer, but given that nearly four times that number do want the comic book character, we can surmise that it would be a significant percentage. I agree that Roy Harper is moved to Roy Harper (singer), and suggest that the disamb page is moved from Roy Harper (disambiguation) to Roy Harper rather than making the comic book character the primary topic. We can revisit in six months, and if reader figures for the singer remain respectable, leave things stand, but if reader figures have dropped to less than 10% of the comic book character, then make the comic book character primary. SilkTork ✔Tea time 07:33, 27 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Page views suggest there's no WP:PRIMARYTOPIC here.[3] Also note that Speedy (comics) is getting a fair number of hits looking for Roy Harper (the original Speedy), just as Robin (comics) is a target for some readers searching for Dick Grayson, and the Speedy article has a similar number of hits to the musician. The comics character also has more historical importance than he's getting credit for here; he was one of the first "teen sidekicks", has regularly appeared in print and other media for 76 years and counting, and was the subject of a significant 1971 storyline that paved the way for comics to portray drugs and other mature themes.[4][5] I don't believe the comics character is the primary topic, but the musician does not appear to be either, and so the article should be moved.--Cúchullain t/c 18:01, 5 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, page views are clear here. I also agree with much of SilkTork's analysis, so I'll leave it at that. -- Tavix (talk) 01:07, 13 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - neither the character nor the folk singer (even allowing for "MOJO Hero Awards" and "BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards") has particularly noteworthy long-term significance, so it comes down to common usage / page-views, which shows a fairly even split. Emotions aside, this is a clear case of no primary topic.  — Amakuru (talk) 12:09, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

felix howard

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the song-writer & VP of A&R at EMI publishing, who appeared as 'the kid' in madonna's "open your heart" video... bunch of other stuff. anyhow, he was, for a little while, playing bass in a band I was acquainted with, & I was told at the time that he was the son of roy harper. he's plainly notable in his own right; this could probably do with following up.

duncanrmi (talk) 10:00, 23 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Felix Howard referred to Harper as his children's "biological grandfather" in an Instagram post today, showing them all meeting at a Nick Harper gig in London. I can add it to the article, carefully worded and citing Howard's post, but I am not sure it is a credible source. https://www.instagram.com/p/CyxjKLXttEl/?img_index=1 Theheartof (talk)
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