Talk:Roustam Raza

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Georgian version of Rostom's surename

I have removed the unsourced statement about the Georgian version of Rostom's surename - Rostom Razmadze (Georgian: როსტომ რაზმაძე). If someone can provide a source, plz re-add this info into article.

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This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 08:02, 27 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Origin

All hisotiricians lived that time wrote that he was mamluk and there lot of facts evidencing his nationality (for example Stendhal or Paul Ollendorf [1]). Mamluks have no anything coomon with armenians, there are no any facts about his armenian past. Thats why propose to delete information about his armenian parents as unaffirmed.--Shikhlinski (talk) 15:26, 11 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Il m'a beaucoup regardé, en me disant si je parle Arménien ? Je dis que oui, mème j'élais Arménien. Il me dit en mème langage

Souvenirs de Roustam, mamelouck de Napoléon Ier. Introduction et notes de Paul Cottin, Préface de Frédéric Masson. Paris: Paul Ollendorff, 1911.--Taron Saharyan (talk) 01:18, 3 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Roustam or Rustam is a common Persian name. His sister's name was Bekzada. Bekzada another Persian name. Consider Roustam and Bekzada very strange names for Armenians. On the other hand those names are very common among the people of Central Asia. Azeris, Tajiks, Uzbeks, Kazakhs, and of course the Iranians. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.182.150.134 (talk) 11:50, 18 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hi there Taron Saharyan. Thank you for your edit, however, I had to revert it as I believe it violates several Wikipedia guidelines. First of all, your reference is from 1911 and thus outdated (WP:AGEMATTERS). Secondly, who are its authors? What are their degrees, notability, etc.? (WP:RS) Secondly, where exactly does the 1911 ref discredit that what the modern historian Giorgio Riota says in the reference from the year 2000? The excerpt you linked certainly does not as far as I can see. You'll really need a proper modern source that specifically discredits the statement by Rota if we were to discuss this any further I'm afraid. Best, - LouisAragon (talk) 18:26, 3 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Roustam and Mamluks

it is well known that the Mamluks brought many Armenian slaves to egypt, since Armenians had more interaction with the Mamluks it is more probable for Rustam to have been Armenian than Georgian. Rustam even asked Armenian merchants to bring his Mother to france, therefor he knew to speak Armenian.

i hope this link can provide more information http://www.armeniens.culture.fr/article133.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.168.56.242 (talk) 16:17, 11 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The source that Rota uses is La jeunesse mouvementée de Roustam ou comment le Géorgien devint le Mameluk de Napoléon (Bedi Kartlisa, Paris, 1976). So it seems to have been published by a journal that wanted to emphasize a Georgian background. However, important Napoleon historians such as J. Christopher Herold and Jonathan North wrote that he was Armenian. From reading Roustam's memoirs, he clearly considered himself Armenian and even claimed Armenians are braver than Georgians and Mingrelians. And though he was born in Tbilisi, he grew up in Askeran, which he called his homeland and is where his father was from. So there seems to be a stronger weight that Roustam considered himself Armenian. I also removed the "Razmadze" name because I could not find a source for it. --KhndzorUtogh (talk) 00:15, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]