Talk:Rory McIlroy

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Prodigy

--Dicdoc 22:19, 3 February 2006 (UTC) 'Young golfing prodigy' is not a point of view. Any objective observer will admit that McIlroy's achievements place him under the category 'prodigy.' It is not a particularly qualitative statement. The reason people want to read about him is due to the phenomenal talent he has for his age.

WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as stub, and the rating on other projects was brought up to Stub class. BetacommandBot 16:58, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Religious background

Rory is of a Catholic background, so don not change it again.--78.16.176.227 (talk) 17:50, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

• I took out reference to his religion. It is irrelevant to the article, and not of interest to anyone outside of a bigoted political mindset. There is no reference to religion in the articles on Justin Rose or Lee Westwood - why so with Rory? Stop politicising issues unnecessarily. --Dicdoc (talk) 11:31, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

• Someone has added this religious reference again without justifying the reason for doing so. Can you please indicate exactly when 'Rory has spoken openly about his religion', and perhaps provide some sources? Are you going to alter their articles to show that Graeme McDowell and Darren Clarke are Protestants? No, because it's irrelevant. Why then is it relevant that Rory is a Catholic? --Dicdoc (talk) 10:02, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

I'm not religious at all, but to say someone's religion is irrelevant is flat out stupid. There are few things that influence a person's character more than religion. This is a biography of Rory and mentioning his religion is not bold at all. It's actually quite expected. It's certainly a more vital piece of information about the man than his relationship with Caroline Wozniacki. I mean, how long do you think that relationship is going to last? Furthermore, given the context of Northern Island's history, the subject of his religion becomes even more relevant. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheyCallMeTheEditor (talk • contribs) 23:34, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

Whilst i can understand that religion usually doesnt have any point in a bio like this and some will uses his religion to further there points and/or judge him and also that none of these things have anything to do with wikipedia, his religion is being remarked on by the press and as such has merit in the article.Eleutherius (talk) 22:16, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

• I would understand your point if I saw evidence that his religion is being remarked on *because he is religious* by press outside of Ireland - but as far as I can tell it is only Irish newspapers that are remarking on it, and not because he is observant. If we do accept that he is no more religious than any other average golfer, why then should we make a special case of mentioning his religion in the article? Such a measure has to be justified and to me it seems the justification being given is 'because he is Catholic'. Non-sequitur alert! Even if the press are commenting on his religion as some seem to think they are, why does that imbue it with some sort of magical automatic relevance for Wikipedia? The press comment in many ways that are not appropriate for inclusion in an enecyclopedia. Dicdoc (talk) 20:46, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Good, now I know he is catholic thanks to discussion page. That's what an encylopedia is for. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.136.90.177 (talk) 20:03, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

An encyclopedia usually just contains information of reasonable interest to reasonable people. Hakluyt bean (talk) 23:34, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

I'm an atheist, and it is of interest to me. To claim that this is not encyclopaedic information about someone from Northern Ireland seems to me to be an attempt to make Wikipedia conform to a vision of the world as it should be, rather than acknowledging the world as it actually is. And I would argue that it is relevant to his golf, because he is going to have to choose between representing Great Britain or Ireland at the Olympics. As for the point about this issue only being covered by the press in Ireland, that is an absurd argument. Vast swathes of Wikipedia are made up of material of little interest to anyone outside the country in question. There is no policy requiting media coverage in multiple countries. Google shows that this issue is one of the most common queries about Rory, and I refuse to believe that everyone who wants to know is Irish. I for one wanted to know, and I'm not Irish. People have a reasonable expectation that the wikipedia article about a person will cover common queries about that person. Alex Middleton (talk) 00:49, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

How does his religion have anything to do with who he will represent in the Olympics? Tewapack (talk) 18:02, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

Does anybody on this page know anything about the history of Northern Ireland?? It is absurd to say that religion is not relevant to someone from Northern Ireland. If the media has remarked on it, and of course they will note it for anyone noteworthy from Northern Ireland, then it absolutely, positively belongs in the article. To delete this reference is a serious omission of relevant information, and is simply forces the reader to click to the "discussion" page to learn this key fact. Jrgilb (talk) 02:13, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

When a person from NI succeeds on the world stage, it is perfectly reasonable to wonder what his religion is. It should be stated plainly in the early life section and left at that. It's omission seems conspicuous and self-conscious. Based on the discussion here, I'm putting it back in. Armandtanzarian (talk) 16:53, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

While politics and religion are important topics for the people of Northern Ireland, Wiki is a global project and a person's religion may not be of much interest to a large nubers of readers. I don't really object to there being a mention of it in the article, but let's not make too much of an issue about it. --BweeB (talk) 17:53, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Well, yes he's a Roman Catholic, but he hardly conforms to the Oirish brigade stereotypes. He's an only child, comes from a prosperous part of Belfast, was educated at a mixed cross-denominational grammar school, holds a British passport and accepted an MBE from the British government. Reading the comments here reminded me of the late George Best, who was nominally a Protestant, but "wasn't interested in religion". And as someone commented, "it's a pity there aren't more people like him in Northern Ireland". Poshseagull (talk) 08:36, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Nationality

Not sure you can have Northern Ireland nationality. Northern Ireland is not a nation state. It makes as much sense as "Queensland" nationality "Alsace" nationality.

1964fagan (talk) 07:58, 16 October 2010 (UTC)1964fagan

McIlroy's "nationality", in a golfing sense, is clear cut - he represents Northern Ireland. His profile on the European Tour's site clearly identifies him with Northern Ireland - [1] (flag in upper left corner) and [2] (Country=NIR). And the Official World Golf Rankings also clearly associated him with Northern Ireland [3] (Country=Nir). And his own web site [4] (flag in upper laft corner). - Tewapack (talk) 04:05, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

I have shown a reliable source that disagress with above. BigDunc 12:11, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

A few points here. Individually, he represents NI as Tewapack as shown. In other events he represents, Ireland, GB & Ireland, or Europe. You're picking one event and assuming his nationality from that. He competed for Ireland the island at the World Cup, and not the state of the Republic of Ireland as your edit suggested. Using {{IRL}} links to the Republic article with the Tricolour, which is not an all Ireland flag. So your reference and rationale are incorrect.

For uniformity with other golf bios, Tewapack's edit is correct. However it should be acknowledged that nationality in NI is a lot different than in other countries. McIlroy himself points this out fairly well here, where he says he has a British passport and would compete for GB at the 2016 Olympics but acknowledges it's an "awkward question".

In short, I'm not sure what the solution to the nationality field is, but I'm sure your's is incorrect Dunc. Stu ^{’Bout ye!} 12:48, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

I removed the flag for this reason and the when it was reverted I showed that he also plays under the Flag of Ireland, this is why the flags shouldn't be used. BigDunc 14:46, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

So as a compromise I would suggest both go in and if that is not acceptable then none go in. BigDunc 15:00, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Both going in would not be a compromise, it would just be incorrect. He is not from the Republic, and has never represented the Republic. As this affects several NI golfers I would suggest a centralised discussion, probably at WP:GOLF. Stu ^{’Bout ye!} 15:16, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

He represented Ireland see here using the Flag of Ireland. So he has played under both flags to choose one flag is POV. BigDunc 15:37, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Northern Ireland doesn't have a flag. GoodDay (talk) 15:51, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

I agree with you GD that is true but it is used in some sporting contexts and this is one of them. BigDunc 15:52, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Okie Dokie. GoodDay (talk) 15:53, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

@ Stu, you say above He is not from the Republic, the flag doesn't represent his birth place it is his sporting nationality and he represents Ireland, also NI doesn't have a flag so it is wrong on that account also. BigDunc 10:54, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

Rory will be flattered that you're writing about him on Christmas morning. Was that event not an all-Ireland team? Mooretwin (talk) 23:29, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

The European Convention on Nationality defines nationality thus; "nationality" means the legal bond between a person and a State and does not indicate the person's ethnic origin. WP has a peculiar notion that there exists such a thing as 'sporting nationalities'. Thus "the Ulster Banner, the flag of the former government of Northern Ireland, is used in golf competition or "Nationality in snooker is used to denote the regional divisions within snooker, not the player's legal citizenship. Rory would appear to be happy with a British passport, therefore I presume that he is content to be identified as a British Citizen. The fact that he was born in Ireland also gives him the right to carry an Irish Passport ut whether hecarries one or other or both is as far as I am concerned a personal decision for him alone. Would it not be more appropriate to put "|allegiance= " instead of "| nationality = Northern Ireland" in the Infobox, given that there is no such a thing as Northern Irish nationalty? Eog1916 (talk) 18:07, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

As you rightly pointed out WP has the notion of sporting nationality. If you don't like that I suggest you go and change the quidelines but please not do change it here without consensus. Bjmullan (talk) 18:20, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

To be honest, keeping the nationality with the old Northern Ireland flag is rather counter productive, it seems it is placed there under the 'sporting nationality' rule, but within the article the reader wouldn't see it as such- but rather his 'nationality' and the regions 'national flag' which as we know does not exist and has no proper status!! Keeping it there comes across as such with political/sectarian motives, as the flag (regardless of its use with the lad) is mostly representative of one side of the community in Northern Ireland. The proper labelling as 'sporting nationality' instead of 'nationality' maybe, or the union flag being used would be more factual than what is currently used. The Golfing Association that he is currently a member of is an all Ireland body and the four province flag is used to represent the golfers, so that too is a viable alternative to the defunct one currently used under the 'sporting nationality' rule. Editing the flag with a four provinces flag would not be against the current wp rule. Eireabu (talk) 19:07, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

This could be a good comprise as he has represent Ireland in competition. Bjmullan (talk) 20:30, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

• sigh* I see the same old 'norn iron' bigotry is rampant here as on virtually all Northern Ireland-related articles. I believed the common sense approach was to simply label an NI person the nationality of which they choose. People from Northern Ireland are legally both Irish citizens and British citizens and have the right to be identified as such. Mr. McIlroy is an Irish Catholic and has identified with this numerous times. Flaunting the old government of Northern Ireland flag on this page is simply an act of provocation and an insult to the tenants of the Good Friday Agreement which make clear that forced-identification like this are a thing of the past. I fail to see why anyone would be so uncomfortable in their own identification that they feel the need to force it upon others. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.13.206.155 (talk) 00:38, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Was Rory McIlroy himself being a "bigot" when he "flaunted" the Northern Ireland flag at the Ryder Cup, or was his father a "bigot" yesterday when he "flaunted" it at the Constitutional Club Mooretwin (talk) 13:04, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

I'm not a fan of the flag you're talking about either, but McIlroy appears to be. Either it's being forced upon him or he's willingly associating himself with it. He had it around his neck at the Ryder Cup, his father was holding it at the U.S. Open, and--most verifiably--it's prominently featured at his website. Why exactly he's so fond of it is a different question altogether. Perhaps you can ask him why amid all the "Are you the next Tiger Woods?" questions, as in. "Rory, congrats on your big win! How many majors do you think you'll win and, by the way, what's up with the sectarian rag on your website?" ;-) Nuclare (talk) 13:13, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

Those from Northern Ireland are not citizens of both the UK and of the Republic of Ireland. They are born citizens of the UK. Irish law says the "are entitled to be" Irish citizens, not they are Irish citizens. They become citizens when they do something a citizen does, such as obtain a passport or vote. They can cease to be either a British or Irish citizen at any time by renouncing their citizenship. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.10.45.168 (talk) 15:40, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

It seems pretty obvious to me that McIlroy's Nationality is not Northern Irish - since Nationality information will generally be interpreted to mean something like "What passport does the person hold?", or "What nation state were they born in?" While the point of about "sporting nationality" is a good one, the table says Nationality, *not* Sporting Nationality. Andy Murray's page has "Country - Great Britain" (pedants might point out that the country is The United Kingdom of ... etc.) Chris Hoy's entry calls Hoy British and in the same paragraph states his sporting representations. (that he represents the UK in Olympic and World Championship events and Scotland in Commonwealth events). This seems to me to be a good model - factually correct re. nationality and informative regarding his sporting appearances. Japanscot (talk) 01:21, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

Better Photograph

Somewhere, there must be a better image than a largely-obstructed small image of his face. I tried searching Google but no available pictures were better and neither is 'Rory McIlroy Irish Golfer' from wikimedia. Hopefully one will come along. --Jpboyrox (talk) 15:45, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

I agree, it's a terrible photo. The man needs to go to a gym. He has a paunch and man boobs and he's only young. Definitely punching above his weight. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.186.85.65 (talk) 12:01, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

I think it's a great picture. Pictures should enhance the article, and this does. I see enough of his face that I could ID him in the line at the grocery store, but I also see him swinging away, so I'm seeing him as a golfer. I think it's a heck of a lot better than so many of the pictures we have taken by people who caught somebody out in public with their camera phone. Keep it! 98.82.201.24 (talk) 17:20, 11 April 2011 (UTC) (And no, I didn't take it--I've never taken a picture for Wikipedia.)

Edit request from 50.98.144.9, 19 June 2011

{{edit semi-protected}}

Please change Rory's home town from Holywood, Southern Ireland to Holywood, NORTHERN IRELAND. Given the politicized nature of the country this is a point of fact that is important to get right. 50.98.144.9 (talk) 23:47, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

 Done though I take no Credit, if it was incorrect someone changed it but I can't see who, if any. "Southern" Ireland I take it you mean the republic of Ireland, and MOS states Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland are always distinguished as they are separate. --Τασουλα (Shalom!) (talk) 18:13, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from FatBrit, 20 June 2011

Two errors:

1). There is no such nationality as Northern Ireland. Rory Mcilroy was born in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, He identifies as either British (of which NI is a part of), or irish (which grants Irish citizienship to most people from NI,) or both (as a dual citizien). And he has identified himself as British, whether you, or the European golf tour, like it or not.

http://www.pgatour.com/2009/tournaments/r010/03/04/wednesday_transcript_mcilroy/index.html

2). You have the flag of St. George (the patron saint of England) on this site not the flag of St. Patrick. I refer you to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Patrick's_Flag

Since 1800, this has been used to represent Ireland (all of it at one point and now just NI) on the Union Flag. Currently, NI has no official flag beyond that of the Union Flag and that is rarely used unless absolutely necessary so as not to inflame Catholics. Flags are a big deal in NI:

http://www.pgatour.com/2009/tournaments/r010/03/04/wednesday_transcript_mcilroy/index.html

If Mcilroy had identified himself as Irish, best to leave it off. However, he identifies as British, so put the right flag up.

On a final note, When did the Eurpean golf tour become the arbiter of nationality? The flag they are using was discarded as the flag of NI in 1972, as an act of conciliation. The flag on the European tour page is so politically incorrect, it's hard to know where to begin. For many Catholics, right or not, this symbol is associated with loyalists as it depicts the "bloody hand of Ulster" superimposed over the English flag. Removing the hand makes it the flag of England alone.

This inability of some people to put aside their personal agenda is what allows detractors of Wikipedia to find proof that it is not fact based, but opinion. It does

the whole of Wikipedia a disservice.

FatBrit (talk) 12:53, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

FatBrit (talk) 12:01, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Frankly, what you have written above is complete nonsense. McIlroy himself has waved the NI flag at events such as the Ryder Cup. Mooretwin (talk) 13:06, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Same thing, different wording (Who knows), he identifies as North Irish so that's reflected in the article. It was decided long ago NIrish/Scottish/Welsh/English are nationalities as they are respective nations. If one has a preference to British it would be reflected. --Τασουλα (Shalom!) (talk) 18:07, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from 99.29.98.63, 22 June 2011

{{edit semi-protected}} <!-Rory has bought a house in Carryduff, n Ireland- Begin request -->

99.29.98.63 (talk) 02:47, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. —GFOLEY FOUR— 04:16, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

It's already in the info-box that he lives there but it's not backed up by a source. --Τασουλα (Shalom!) (talk) 18:37, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

Worls ranking in lead

Took out this text as it is likely that he will be in an out of the No. 1 spot ans we cannot record all these changes in the lead. Let the body of the article track his rankings and record all his wins, etc. --BwB (talk) 02:05, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Worthy of a mention?

[5] ? --Τασουλα (talk) 11:43, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

Personal life section

The opening of this section has been referenced reliably and well to show McIlroy's reaction to being British/Irish. As he is from Northern Ireland he is entitled to either or both, if he chooses. The facts come from two articles, one relating to where he calls himself British http://www.pgatour.com/2009/tournaments/r010/03/04/wednesday_transcript_mcilroy/index.html "Obviously being British and playing well at the British Open, you know, there was a lot of media attention", and the other http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/11/sports/golf/northern-irelands-mcilroy-transcends-boundaries.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all to where he doesnt not wish to be drawn on the subject "Asked in an interview with the PGA Tour Web site last year whether he considered himself more British or Irish, McIlroy answered, “Pass.” " and his usage of a British passport "In the 2009 interview with London’s Daily Telegraph in which he said he would choose to play for Britain in the Olympics, McIlroy noted that he held a British passport". Murry1975 (talk) 10:01, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

To the "new" editor (who registered in 2006 but has only just joined us), perhaps you could explain why you think this section is biased? — Jon C.^ॐ 12:43, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Can this be added to the page

Rory is a brand Ambassador for swiss timepiece maker Audemars Piguet. Just before the Ryder Cup, Audemars Piguet has released the 2nd video of their Defining Moment Series in which Rory speaks about Augusta and his win in the US Open. The video can be seen on Youtube under this address bkxq-r4_jBw. Do you think this could be added to the page ? The video is also featured on Audemars Piguet's website. Many thanks Chronocosmos (talk) 10:11, 15 October 2012 (UTC)

PGA Tour\Major Wins

You have the 2011 U.S. Open and the 2012 PGA Championship listed under PGA Tour events. None of the 4 majors are PGA Tour events. I would suggest creating a new table which lists his majors wins. X-15a2 (talk) 20:00, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

None of the four majors are run by the PGA Tour, but they are PGA Tour events, as well as European Tour events. Tewapack (talk) 03:18, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

The double-counting between tours is very confusing; wouldn't it be preferable to have a single list of his professional tour wins?

Edit request - fix PGATour player template

Per Wikipedia:Bot requests/Archive 51#PGA Tour players external links, could you please change the {{PGATour player}} template from {{PGATour player|02/82/37}} to {{PGATour player|28237}} on this article so the link will be correct? Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 13:52, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

Done --Redrose64 (talk) 14:52, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 02:05, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Pointy edits

Some edits have been made that are leaning the article incorrectly. McIlroys place of birth is Northern Ireland (people are of countries or states not geographical masses, i.e. not Ireland as this is very incorrect). His nationality is Northern Irish (WP:UKNATIONALS is a nice essay), also before someone points out he has represented Ireland- so in a sporting sense he is both- he competes in PGA as a NI player, the guideline is to list the nationality he has played under at the highest level, and that is so. And as we know (referenced in the article) he travels on a UK passport, so there is no inclination from him to garner the Irish citizenship he can if he was to choose to. Murry1975 (talk) 22:26, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

I have been observing the situation from afar. It's very unfortunate that someone just doesn't wish to try and engage in discussion before making changes that go against the established consensus for a page.--Kawaii-Soft (talk) 20:40, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

Not only consensus on the page but convention on BLP's and ignoring the facts to suit a (ironicly) biased view. Murry1975 (talk) 20:47, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

Protection for this article?

If the vandalism persists, would it be possible to get protection for the Rory McIlroy page? Johnsmith2116 (talk) 21:45, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

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No section for The Players Championship

I find it curious that the Players Championship does not have a special section for all professional golfers. Currently, every pro has a Majors section and a WGC section, which details how each player fared in a given event year by year. Considering the fact that the Players is often referred to as the "5th Major" and it is included in the "Season of Championships," its omission is glaring. The Players is undoubtedly more important than WGC events. Many would consider the Players to be a more important tournament than the PGA Championship.

This proposed change of course isn't limited to just Rory McIlory, but all professional golfers who have competed in one of the game's MAJOR Tournaments.

Thanks - DeepFriedEgg

70.164.68.41 (talk) 20:53, 12 June 2019 (UTC)

Despite the fact that the PGA Tour have been pushing the "5th major" for decades, no one regards it as such. In reality it is more like the 5th WGC. But you are right, in my view we could have separate table for it, perhaps between the Majors and the WGCs. Nigej (talk) 04:48, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

Discussion opened at WT:GOLF#Table for Players Championship Nigej (talk) 05:28, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

Actually many respectable voices in the game of golf have been referring to the Players as a major for years. Brandel Chamblee and many professional golfers would agree. While there is still a debate, the growing trend has been to recognize it as a major. Again, its omission is glaring. HSBC Champions is a joke and for some reason its legacy is tracked, but the Players isnt? -- DeepFriedEgg

70.164.68.41 (talk) 13:47, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

Nationality, part 2

I am removing "{{NIR}}<!--NOTE TO EDITORS. Northern Ireland does not have a flag BUT the Ulster Banner is used in golf competition as is Northern Ireland as the nationality. Please do not change this as this is the way WP represents Sporting nationalities.-->" from the Nationality section of the infobox for the following reasons:

1) Despite the claim, this is not "the way WP represents Sporting (sic) nationalities" - the 'nationality' parameter, in a person infobox, is to represent the nationality of the person, not who they represent in a sporting context, (I can't believe that needs to be said, but apparently it does).
2) 'Northern Irish' is not a nationality; people born in Northern Ireland can hold Irish or British nationality, or both, per the Good Friday Agreement. (And no, despite what's written in an earlier section here, they are not automatically both).
3) Seeing as it's to do with a person's nationality, the Ulster Banner - which isn't the flag of Northern Ireland - can't apply.
4) If the nationality parameter were taken to mean who he represents in a sporting context, then per the article text, "McIlroy has represented Europe, Great Britain & Ireland, and Ireland as both an amateur and a professional."; and "If I could and there was a Northern Irish team I'd play for Northern Ireland. Play for one side or the other – or not play at all because I may upset too many people… Those are my three options I'm considering very carefully", before choosing Ireland in 2014." Seeing as golf is run on an all-island basis by the Golfing Union of Ireland, it's be Irish we'd be using.

I am not proposing replacing the 'nationality' parameter with either Irish or British, at this time, because we don't know which nationality he holds. Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 21:31, 26 September 2021 (UTC)

But no matter what points you try and argue you’re going to be wrong in some way or another. I totally get that Northern Ireland is not officially a nationality and the Ulster Banner is not the official flag either. But we should be reflecting reliable sources and Rory McIlroy represents Northern Ireland in golf. Per OWGR, PGA and European Tour profile leaderboards etc - there’s no grey area about that. The infobox is there to reflect the golfer citing personal information alongside it for more context. If it was based on what nationalities he identifies as outside of golf it’s actually probably American considering he lives there and his wife is from there. Jimmymci234 (talk) 21:43, 26 September 2021 (UTC)

we should be reflecting reliable sources and Rory McIlroy represents Northern Ireland in golf: He does not represent NI in golf, as, being from NI and all, his sport's governing body is the Golfing Union of Ireland. Like the IRFU, Cricket Ireland, Swim Ireland, Hockey Ireland, and pretty much every sports governing body with the exception of association football, the GUI is organised on an all-island basis. Not Republic of Ireland. Not Northern Ireland. But all Ireland. His PGA Tour profile says he's from Northern Ireland (correct) and shows an Ulster Banner - that's their mistake, and we don't need to repeat it. Golfers compete as individuals in both the the PGA Tour and European Tour as individuals, not as representatives of countries. And we are reflecting reliable sources in the body of the article when we quote him: "Those are my three options I'm considering very carefully", before choosing Ireland in 2014." And again - the parameter represents the person; not the nation they represent. The American thing is unsourced speculation. Regards, Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 23:10, 26 September 2021 (UTC)

Of course, you’re right and every other website is wrong. The GUI is sort of irrelevant here as it is a governing body for amateur golf in Ireland, not professional. Also who are you to say that the PGA Tour is wrong and it’s their mistake? If McIlroy doesn’t represent Northern Ireland, then should he just have a blank flag next to his name then according to your logic? It just seems that you are trying to argue against facts here and a lot of the time politics and sports don’t intertwine very well and this seems like a good example of that. Jimmymci234 (talk) 05:53, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

a lot of the time politics and sports don’t intertwine very well and this seems like a good example of that. PRECISELY!!! Now you're getting it! We should not try to shoehorn WP:FLAGCRUFT and an assumed, unreferenced nationality onto someone when the very text of the article states something contrary, not once, but twice: "McIlroy has represented Europe, Great Britain & Ireland, and Ireland as both an amateur and a professional." and "Those are my three options I'm considering very carefully", before choosing Ireland in 2014.". Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 08:53, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

Per MOS:INFOBOXFLAG. "However, the infobox may contain the national flag icon of an athlete who competes in competitions where national flags are commonly used as representations of sporting nationality in a given sport." and that is what we choose to do for golfers. I can see that "nationality" is the incorrect name for this parameter and it ought to be "sporting nationality" or something similar. However, we are simply replicating the flag that is used for McIlroy as the representation of his sporting nationality, per http://www.owgr.com/en/Ranking/PlayerProfile.aspx?playerID=10091, https://www.europeantour.com/players/34024/, https://www.pgatour.com/competition/2021/tour-championship/leaderboard.html and countless others.

Yes, and as pointed out, golfers compete as individuals in both the PGA Tour and European Tour, not as representatives of countries. When he has represented anyone, he has, as stated in the article, "... represented Europe, Great Britain & Ireland, and Ireland as both an amateur and a professional." and "Those are my three options I'm considering very carefully", before choosing Ireland in 2014." (Incidentally, if you maintain that 'nationality' represents who he represents and that that's Northern Ireland, then per point 3 above still applies: the Ulster Banner is not the flag of Northern Ireland. and hasn't been since 1972. It doesn't have one. Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 08:53, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

I've started a discussion at WT:GOLF#"Nationality" parameter in Infobox golfer about changing the "nationality" text used in the infobox. Nigej (talk) 07:18, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

I know this is last second but I would like to respond. The thrust of my response is captured in the comment of Jimmymci234: "Of course, you’re right and every other website is wrong."

Bastun, your suggestions represent a level of arrogance and "originality" (WP:OR) I have hardly ever witnessed on this website (and that is saying something!). All other credible sites have the Northern Irish flag (or whatever it's called) next to McIlroy's name. This may be an interesting issue for the political science quarterlies but here we simply defer to reliable third-party sources. If the PGA Tour, European Tour, and OWGR all have that flag next to his name then we must defer to that. This isn't rocket science.

Oogglywoogly (talk) 02:23, 29 September 2021 (UTC)Oogglywoogly

And that doesn't change the fact that as pointed out, we're talking about the "nationality" parameter, which represents a person, not the sport they happen to play, and that golfers compete as individuals in both the PGA Tour and European Tour, not as representatives of countries. When he has represented anyone, he has, as stated in the article, "... represented Europe, Great Britain & Ireland, and Ireland as both an amateur and a professional." and "Those are my three options I'm considering very carefully", before choosing Ireland in 2014."

As to the Northern Ireland flags issue as a whole, no, it's of a bit broader interest than just political science quarterlies: [6] [7] [8] [9] - all fairly recent examples of coverage. Maybe broaden your reading to more than golf magazines? Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 08:38, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

Ooggly, appreciate your contributions but please don’t fuel this debate or else it will become an argument and we’ll end up going around in circles! This may be a more touchy subject for some here so let’s just leave it as it is. Jimmymci234 (talk) 05:55, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

Good point, well made. Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 08:38, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

Sorry about that guys - my sassiness gets the best of me some of the time. I wasn't trying to offend anyone.

Basically, my overall point is that I think this thread has outgrown its use. I don't think these decisions are directly relevant to golf editors. Has a consensus on "Northern Irish nationality" not been reached on some Northern Irish politics talk page or another wiki politics talk page?

Oogglywoogly (talk) 04:02, 30 September 2021 (UTC)Oogglywoogly

I'm not clear. Is the issue with the labelling of the nationality field (i.e. it need clarification as to what is meant) or with the use of the Ulster banner? If it's the former, this is the wrong venue to be having the discussion. If it's simply the latter, then it's very obvious that a POV is being pushed that is contrary the vast majority of coverage. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 09:23, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

It's both. The nationality field in a person infobox refers (or should refer) to the nationality of the person, not the country they 'represent' in a sporting context. And the Ulster Banner simply isn't the flag of Northern Ireland. If it can be said to have one, it's the Flag of the United Kingdom. And in any case, when McIlroy has represented a country, it's been Ireland (as a whole), not Northern Ireland - as discussed and referenced in the article. They're facts, not POV. Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 09:46, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

Firstly, that is not how the field is used (nor how it was intended to be used, or how it has ever been used) – there is now discussion elsewhere regarding clarifying the label. Secondly, >>99% of the time McIlroy is described as being from Northern Ireland (not as Irish or British, even though he has described himself as both) and illustrated with the Ulster Banner (not the tricolour or the Union Flag) – we simply follow that usage. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 10:13, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

2022 open

The author was a bit premature 😉 24.115.171.246 (talk) 17:55, 17 July 2022 (UTC)

Professional Wins

Is it 38 or 47? The total by various tours is 47 Billsmith60 (talk) 00:36, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

38, majors and some other tournaments are co-sanctioned meaning they may count as wins on multiple tours. Jimmymci234 (talk) 07:03, 22 January 2024 (UTC)