Talk:Romani society and culture

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"In Hungary, 44% of Roma children are in special schools, while 74% of men and 83% of women are unemployed."

Do we have so much special schools ? References ? Frigo 10:51, 4 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

muslim comment

except Muslims - is that muslim roma? UKbandit 13:34, 12 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It says in the article shaktism is still practiced by the Rroma, & that adherence to this practice means that for the Roma who worship the Christian God, prayers are said through the Virgin Mary or her Mother, St. Anne. In that case, what about Muslim Roma? What do they do?--Splashen (talk) 03:29, 15 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I should clarify something the article doesn't make clear; Kali Sara fulfils this role in religions or denominations that do not have a readily available figure, such as the Virgin Mary. The role of Kali Sara is to deliver prayers to God, and she's evident even in religions or denominations that don't hold with idolatry (ie, the Western European Romani Church doesn't encourage crucifixes, pictures of Christ, etc). Talking objectively, she transcends religious doctrine and acts as a sort of add-on to fill this role where needed, and she's been observed in different forms in a huge variety of Romani communities (of varying faiths). She's not specifically a Christian entity.

But I have to say this claim is misleading. The majority of Romanies, if they are religious, adhere to their mother religion to the letter (certainly including Muslim Roma), and do not practice Shaktism. Though there's a huge number who do, a finger doesn't make the hand. I'll rewrite this section, and also try to find reliable citations regarding Kali Sara's use among non-Christian Roma. Xamechoka 12:55, 22 December 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Xamechoka (talk • contribs)

Folktales

Some books (including at least one that is downloadable) that might be of value to somebody trying to expand the section: www.RomaniFolktales.com

--198.103.167.20 (talk) 16:21, 23 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

music

The short description before the subheadings talks more about romania - i propose either to move the content about the particular bands in the "rroma music" article or, perhaps, (though i believe that's not the wikipedia way) somebody from another country or has knowledge about how it's like there to add content regarding rroma music in that place. I also believe the word "lăutari" is used pretty much only in romania (since it's a romanian word as well) and possibly neighbouring countries, but i really think it's not a universal rroma word, and maybe those who live in other countries have a different word for their bands. Then again, a good part of this article appears to me as a presentation of Romanian gypsies (giving that i've seen the word "Romania" more here than in the article on Romania, but that might just be me) with short descriptions of how it's like in other countries, and that somebody who is well documented on this subject should one day do a rewrite to provide a more world-wide description of their culture, while moving the mostly-romanian parts in a seperate article (if it doesn't already exist) Alzwded (talk) 20:07, 20 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ethnical?

I do not think that is a real word. Ethnicity or something seems like a much better match? 50.34.242.90 (talk) 20:45, 14 March 2012 (UTC) (was me, signed out by mistake) Khallus Maximus (talk) 20:46, 14 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, and further, this hatnote dab between Romani and Romanian has been debated elsewhere and found unnecessary, (possibly at the Romani people Talk, if memory serves). Will remove unless there are policy-based objections. RashersTierney (talk) 21:31, 14 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Nomadic lifestyle

"Because of their nomadic lifestyle..."

This is the first time a nomadic lifestyle is mentioned. It's apparently a significant enough part of romani culture that everybody knows about it, but there's no section here explaining the reasons for it, or explaining that it exists, or what it means to be nomadic (i.e. they form temporary camps near cities vs. traveling around to pasture sites with their livestock) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.60.201.38 (talk) 23:40, 24 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Purity and death

No citations given yet. Citations needed throughout this section. Kdevans (talk) 21:41, 14 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Article lede needs expanding

Currently the lede reads (only) "The Romani people have similar value systems and worldviews.". Similar to whom? This needs expanding into a whole paragraph. 86.131.10.124 (talk) 12:44, 11 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Trivial section

§Being a part of Romani society (subsection of § Moral values), in spite of the promise of its expansive title, consists of two brief and unrelated paragraphs:

A considerable punishment for a Rom is expulsion from Romani society. An expelled person is considered to be "contaminated" and is shunned by other Romanis.

Travelling Roma left symbols or signposts for their traveling fellows, known as patrins (an old word for leaf).

Without any related material, the second paragraph is just a piece of Trivia. The content of each of these paragraphs should either be merged coherently into other sections of the article, or (especially the second one) simply deleted.

--Thnidu (talk) 03:29, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

"Magic" and Neo-Pagan material

I would caution those who are adding "neo-pagan"/"wiccan"/"magic" sources to support dubious claims about Romani beliefs to be very selective and careful about verifying the background of authors who write this material; many, if not most, of the "New Age" material written about us is patently false or derived from Edwardian/Victorian fictions created to romanticize us and our culture. Simply searching the word "Draba" will return to you many fictive sources from roleplaying games and various new age charlatans on Google, as one example. I am Kalderash, my mother and her family come from Costinești in Romania. They still seek herbs for medicine here in America, and they still believe in old superstitions in many ways, but even in that I have never heard such beliefs like "sacred snakes" or "patron demons" or any such things. Water is respected but it is not magic, clean flowing water can cleanse that which is dirty and make it ready for use again and by extension, and due to exposure to Christian beliefs of spiritual cleansing through baptism like what my extended family in America believe as Pentecostal Christians some Romani people believe this ability of clean running water to be spiritually cleansing like in the washing away of sin as well. I am not Pentecostal and don't know very much about this aspect of the idea but I do know it is not considered "magical". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Leotronik (talk • contribs) 05:27, 28 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This whole romani society page is only based on christian roma culture. The food e.g. Romanipen etc. all from christian roma groups, You can't relate that to the Muslim Roma at all. Zigani (talk) 23:36, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

chickens and eggs

The fact that all Roma groups do not eat eggs and chickens is not true at all. Especially the Romanlar in Turkey eat chicken and eggs, and have their own recipes for it which are well known in Turkey, such as, Cingene Tavugu and Cingene yumurtasi: Yumurta,https://romanigodi.org/roman-mutfagini-taniyor-muyuz-3-cingene-yumurtasi/ and https://www.nefisyemektarifleri.com/firinda-cingene-tavugu/ Zigani (talk) 14:48, 27 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Romani crucifixion legend

This short article currently says there are two versions:

"The condemnatory version states that as he made the nails to crucify Jesus Christ, the blacksmith and his kin were condemned to wander the earth and never settle.^[1]

"Another version does not condemn Romanies. It states that the blacksmith was addressed by God in a dream, in which he was instructed to make four nails, but he was only instructed to hand over three of them, because the fourth nail was supposed to be used to pierce the heart of Jesus. In return, God gave his descendants the right to wander the earth rather than curse them to wander it, and he also granted them the right to steal from non-Romanies without breaking the 7th of the Ten Commandments "Thou shalt not steal".^{[citation needed]}^{[dubious – discuss]}

Does anyone know of any WP:RS source(s) for the second, alternative version? Is it a complete fiction? Many thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:48, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Benevolent Prawn, I see you have added at that article. I wonder do you have any views on this? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:00, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not an expert on this at all but I would be surprised if the second version isn't a "real legend", so to speak. I'd have to do some research to see what the earliest mention of the second version is. Can't right now though. Benevolent Prawn (talk) 00:27, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have added some comment, from the author, to your addition, to provide some context. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 06:31, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Bogdal, Klaus-Michael (27 July 2023). Europe and the Roma: A History of Fascination and Fear. Random House. ISBN 9780141997308.

Aricle contradicts itself on origins of Roma

The article in the opening paragraphs states that Roma originate from the Kashmir Region of modern India but then in the second section says that, while many people state that the Romani are from northwest India they are actually from central India and that there is proof of this. Either this is a contended issue and should reflect such or one of the statements is wrong 62.255.129.180 (talk) 11:15, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This entire page is a damn mess

Was this written by a seven-year-old? It's literally the worst Wikipedia page I've ever seen (and I've seen much more than the average person). It needs a complete overhaul. Mountaindew711 (talk) 15:42, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

How long do you think it might take you? Martinevans123 (talk) 16:18, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Bogdal, Klaus-Michael (27 July 2023). Europe and the Roma: A History of Fascination and Fear. Random House. ISBN 9780141997308.

[1]