Talk:Rockin' Robin (song)

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Untitled

An infobox was requested for the 1958 Bobby Day version of "Rockin' Robin" at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Missing_encyclopedic_articles/List_of_notable_songs/11. Done

Rockin Robin

Written by Huey Darby of New Iberia, La and performed first by Randy and the Rockets from the same town.

Why is this page more about Michael Jackson and unrelated material than of the song itself?!

For crying out glavin! Wikipedia is supposed to be NPOV ... and not greatly favor someone who's done a cover than the original creator and musicians (who did just as well). This needs massive fixing, and removal of most of the irrelevent Michael Jackson material. Nonprof. Frinkus (talk) 01:26, 18 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This page does adhere to a NPOV. If there was more info on the song, related to the creator, that would be added. Pyrrhus16 (talk) 10:28, 18 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I also believe the article is neutral. But I also feel it is very unbalanced. It's easy to leave the page thinking Michael Jackson made the only notable version of the song. Compare to the balance in articles like Stay (Maurice Williams song) or I Fought the Law. Wantnot (talk) 07:15, 9 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

@Synthwave.94: and any/everyone else.

Are we really going to push Bobby Day's version of Rockin' Robin as being Bubblegum pop? Just because something appears in a source it does not mean that we have to include it. Our definition of the genre states "The birth of bubblegum is generally dated from the success in 1968 of . . ... " Day's version predates this by a decade. I don't wish to get into an edit war so let's tak about this. Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 06:19, 5 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The bubblegum genre did not exist in 1958, when Day's version was released, and therefore his version cannot be considered "bubblegum". The Allmusic review of MJ's version does not refer to Day's recording - it refers to the song, which had doubtless been performed by other artists in a (very loosely) "bubblegum" style in the late 1960s. In any case, a review by one reviewer at Allmusic cannot be taken as definitively accurate, and in this case is quite clearly capable of misleading. Ghmyrtle (talk) 06:56, 16 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

As above - here, here. - Derek R Bullamore (talk) 20:53, 17 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Wrong information. Michael Jackson songs cannot have unexplained date changes!

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.253.107.14 (talk • contribs)

Copyright status

Despite objections, it is a fact that the song is only public domain in the United States, which is all the cited reference mentions. In the rest of the world it will be protected for 50 or 70 years after the year in which Leon René died, i.e. to the end of 2032 or 2052. This is a fact so obvious that we have no more need to cite it specifically than we would to cite the fact that homicide is illegal on a murder-related page. Nick Cooper (talk) 13:08, 4 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Nick Cooper: You need a source which explicitly support your changes as per WP:STICKTOSOURCE. Synthwave.94 (talk) 14:27, 30 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

No we don't. The reality of copyright law outside the United States trumps a poorly researched and factually incorrect trivia article. The cites source misrepresenting the law does not make it true. Nick Cooper (talk) 19:33, 30 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

5,128,306 views on YouTube since, 30 October 2011, can't be wrong, can they? Martinevans123 (talk) 19:45, 30 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Nick Cooper: Read the source again. It doesn't explicitly say that it is in the public domain in the U.S. Synthwave.94 (talk) 20:09, 21 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It is clearly talking about the US copyright, because the US is pretty much the only country in the world to require active registration and - at the time in question - renewal. Given that it specifically mentions the latter, it can only be referring to the US. It is also a collection of trivia, which makes it questionable source in the first place. The song remains copyrighted outside the US. That is a fact. Nick Cooper (talk) 08:25, 22 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Nick Cooper: No, only "Take Me Out to the Ball Game" is "in the public domain in the US and the UK", as per A.Side TV. You therefore need another source to support your changes. Synthwave.94 (talk) 23:00, 22 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

LOL! So your answer to insisting a misinformed trivia webpage is right is to cite another misinformed trivia webpage? "Take Me Out to the Ball Game" will certainly be PD in the US, because it was published in 1908, and thus would have expired after 28 or 56 years, depending on whether it was renewed or not. However, UK copyright is for 70 years after the end of the year in which the last co-author died. As Jack Norworth and Albert Von Tilzer died in 1959 and 1956 respectively, that means to the end of 2029. The UK copyright term did use to be 50 years, but in 1995 it was increased to 70, as per this legislation. This not only applied to works that were still covered by the initial 50 years, but also revived and extended those that had expired. In the case of "Take Me Out to the Ball Game," though, the change to the law happened 14 years before it was originally due to expire (i.e. the end of 2009), so it never fell into the UK public domain at any point. Your "new" citation is simply wrong. Nick Cooper (talk) 09:17, 23 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Nick Cooper: A.Side TV only says that "the copyright on singer Bobby Day's original version of "Rockin' Robin" was never renewed, leaving the music and lyrics free for all to cover to their heart's content, royalty-free. Just don't try it with Michael Jackson's hit 1972 arrangement of the song, which is still under copyright". It doesn't say that is only in the public domain in the United States, and your other changes are unsourced as well. Again, I strongly suggest you reading WP:STICKTOSOURCE before changing anything else related to the copyright status of this song. Synthwave.94 (talk) 23:53, 25 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

In other words, if you believe that A.Side TV is wrong about the song's true copyright status, then it's up to you to find another source which supports your changes (ie. which explicitly says that "Rockin' Robin" is in the public domain in the U.S., but not in the rest of the world). Considering I've been unable to find a better source regarding its copyright status, I think the best thing to do is to stick to what A.Side TV says for now. Synthwave.94 (talk) 02:28, 26 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Inaccurate trivia webpages don't over-ride different copyright laws in different countries. Non-US copyright covers far more than just this one song, so expecting a specific reference to it is beyond unreasonable. Copyrights based on 50 or 70 years after the end of the year in which the author/s died clearly identify this as a song that is still protected outside the US. Deal with it. Nick Cooper (talk) 11:38, 27 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

For god's sake, stop adding unsourced content and try finding a source to support your changes. If you can't do so, then it's time to stop and to move on. Synthwave.94 (talk) 22:34, 20 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It's time for you to acknowledge that some crappy trivia webpage is not a authoritative source for copyright law outside of the US. The song is still copyright protected outside the US, because it being PD on a technicality in the US does not over-ride other countries' laws. Deal with it. Nick Cooper (talk) 15:21, 12 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Once again, read and understand WP:STICKTOSOURCE and WP:SYNTH. Synthwave.94 (talk) 15:54, 12 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Why do you have such difficulty comprehending that your source is worthless on the working of copyright law in countries other than the US? This song categorically is still under copyright outside the US, and some trivia webpage making an ambiguous claim does not alter that. Nick Cooper (talk) 16:26, 12 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

As per WP:SYNTH, "do not combine material from multiple sources to reach or imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by any of the sources". None of the two sources explicitly say that the song felt under the public domain in the U.S., but not elsewhere in the world. In other words, stick to what A.Side TV says, even if you think it's wrong, as Wikipedia is about "verifiability, not truth". Synthwave.94 (talk) 22:36, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

include mention

Could you include mention of Mr. Moneybags by Shotgun Willy? The song samples rockin' robin. 2600:1700:D150:17F0:70F8:9088:2C68:F489 (talk) 19:11, 23 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]