Talk:Robert Hues

Translation of Dutch and Latin texts

Hi, please help provide the English translations of the following Dutch and Latin texts that appear in the article. Thanks. — Cheers, JackLee ^–talk– 19:54, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Dutch

• Tractaet ofte Handelinge van het gebruyck der Hemelscher ende Aertscher Globe: In't Latyn eerst beschreven door Robertvm Hves, Mathematicum / en nu in Nederduytsch over-geset en met diversche nieuwe Verklaringen en Figuren vermeerdert en verciert / oock vele disputable questien gesolveert, door Iohannem Isacivm Pontanvm, Medicyn, en Professor der Philosophie inde vermaerde Schole te Harderwyck (Amsterdam: Iudocus Hondius, woonende op den Dam).

I tried to translate the text literally when possible:

Treatise or Essay on the use of the Heavenly and Earthly Globe: first described in Latin by Robert Hues, Mathematician / and now translated into Dutch, and expanded and decorated with new Clarifications and Figures / also many disputable questions solved, by Johannes Isacius Pontanus, Physician and Professor of Philosophy of the renowned School in Harderwijk (Amsterdam: Jodocus Hondius, living on the Dam).

The 'renowned School in Harderwijk' is possibly the University of Harderwijk.

The 'Dam' is probably what is now Dam Square.

See also Jodocus Hondius.

Success with the article. – Ilse@ 12:31, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks very much for this! I have two questions: (1) is Handelinge best translated "essay" or "instructions"? I believe another editor previously suggested that the word be translated "instructions". (2) Should Hemelscher and Aertscher be translated "heavenly" and "earthly" (more literal) or "Celestial" and "Terrestrial" (more Latinate)? — Cheers, JackLee ^–talk– 13:28, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

(1) I don't think "Instructions" covers the meaning of "Handelinge" well. Literally, "Handelinge" (plural?) means "Acts" or "Dealings" or "Treatise". But within the context I chose a possible translation of the modern word "verhandeling", which is "essay", but this may be too broad. Perhaps the content of the work can shed some light on the best translation.

(2) I would choose the Latinate ("Celestial" and "Terrestrial") if it is referring to something theological and the literal ("Heavenly" and "Earthly") if it is referring to something physical. Or those most consistent with the rest of the article. – Ilse@ 01:46, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for this useful input. As recommended by you, I'll change the English translations of Handelinge in the article to "essay(s)". Regarding Hemelscher and Aertscher, I asked because the 17th-century English translations of the book in question used "Celestial" and "Terrestrial", and I was wondering if it was better to be consistent. However, the books in question are about globes, which are physical rather than theological! — Cheers, JackLee ^–talk– 06:16, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Latin

• Herōologia Anglica, hoc est clarissimorvm et doctissimorvm aliqovt [sic] Anglorvm qvi florvervnt ab anno Cristi M.D. vsq' ad presentem annvm M.D.C.XX viuae effigies vitae et elogia.

• The English Hero-list, {this} being (lit: this is) the lifelike image of the lives and epitaphs of the most famous and educated of the English who flourished from the year 1500 until the present year, 1620. AlexTiefling (talk) 22:54, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• Historia et Antiquitatis Universitatis Oxoniensis duobus voluminibus comprehensae.

• The history and antiquities of the University of Oxford in two comprehensive volumes AlexTiefling (talk) 22:54, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Jack: grammatically, your Antiquitatis should be Antiquitates. Check to be sure you've transcribed the original correctly. Title: 'History and Antiquities of Oxford University, taken together in two volumes'. The feminine adjective comprehensae 'taken together, united, grouped, contained, included, disposed' is modifying the feminine nouns Historia et Antiquitates, not the neuter noun voluminibus. Jacob (talk) 14:17, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks very much, Jacob. The source (Markham, "Introduction", Tractatus de globis, p. xxxvii, n. 1) indicates Antiquitatis, so perhaps that was erroneous. — Cheers, JackLee ^–talk– 03:52, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

• Tractatus duo quorum primus de globis coelesti et terrestri, eorum usu, à Roberto Hues, Anglo, conscriptus. Alter breviarium totius orbis Terrarum, Petri Bertii. Nunc primum luci commißi.

• What does Nunc primum luci commißi mean? — Cheers, JackLee ^–talk– 03:46, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Now for the first time here gathered.Kladderadatsch (talk) 19:28, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks! — Cheers, JackLee ^–talk– 08:26, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

• Tractatvs de Globis Coelesti et Terrestri eorvmqve vsv: Primum conscriptus & editus à Roberto Hues Anglo semelque atque iteram à Iudoco Hondio excusus, & nunc elegantibus iconibus & figuris locupletatus: ac de novo recognitus multisque observationibus oportunè illustratus ac passim auctus opera ac studio. Iohannis Isacii Pontani Medici & Philosophiæ Professoris in Gymnasio Gelrico Hardervici (Amsterdam: Excudebat Henricus Hondius, sub signo Canis Vigilantis in Platea Vitulina prope Senatorium).

• The existing translation on the main page under '6th printing' is correct.

Thanks very much. What do "in Gymnasio Gelrico Hardervici" and "sub signo Canis Vigilantis in Platea Vitulina prope Senatorium" mean? Are you able to help translate the texts and book titles below? — Cheers, JackLee ^–talk– 05:19, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

I believe Gymnasio Gelrico Hardervici would refer to a gymnasium in the city of Harderwijk in the province of Gelderland. --Delirium (talk) 05:28, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Would it be appropriate to translate Gymnasio as "school"? The Dutch version of the book uses the word Schole. And I'm assuming "sub signo Canis Vigilantis" means "under the sign of the Watchful Dog", but what's the rest of the phrase? — Cheers, JackLee ^–talk– 05:32, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Probably something like: 'Under the sign of the Watchdog in Vitulina Place/Plaza near the councilhall'. Of course, a non-Latin placename could be lurking behind Vitulina, but I don't know what it would be. Maybe Hofman's lexicon would have it? Jacob (talk) 14:04, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks very much for responding! I came across the website http://net.lib.byu.edu/~catalog/people/rlm/glossary/glossary.htm by chance, which suggests that Platea should be translated Street. — Cheers, JackLee ^–talk– 15:25, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Yes, gymnasium is dutch for grammer school. (That is, nowadays. Although Harderwijk is now a small town, it had an university from 1648 on.)

No idea about 'Vitulina', do you have a dutch version of that also?--Kladderadatsch (talk) 21:36, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I haven't across a Dutch version of the book that has the same wording. — Cheers, JackLee ^–talk– 03:46, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

maybe it's just Calfstreet then, thats not so unusual, I just realised on of the biggest & oldest shoppingstreet in Amsterdam is called Kalverstraat. (kalveren = plural of kalf = calf = vitulina)--Kladderadatsch (talk) 19:28, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

That's brilliant. I think you're right: see http://www.archive.org/stream/messagerdesscie05gandgoog/messagerdesscie05gandgoog_djvu.txt. — Cheers, JackLee ^–talk– 08:26, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

• Tractatus duo mathematici. Quorum primus de globis coelesti et terrestri, eorum usu, a Roberto Hues ... conscriptus. Alter breviarium totius orbis terrarum, Petri Bertii ... Editio prioribus auctior & emendatior (Oxford: Excudebat L. Lichfield, impensis Ed. Forrest).

Two mathematical treatises. Of which the first one is about the celestial and the terrestial globes and their use, signed Robert Hues.. The other one an anthology of countries of the whole world, of Peter Bert...

First (but why -ibus?) enlarged & improved edition. --Kladderadatsch (talk) 21:36, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Brilliant! Thanks. — Cheers, JackLee ^–talk– 03:46, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

• Depositum viri literatissimi, morum ac religionis integerrimi, Roberti Husia, ob eruditionem omnigenem, Theologicam tum Historicam, tum Scholasticam, Philologicam, Philosophiam, præsertim vero Mathematicam (cujus insigne monumentum in typis reliquit) Primum Thomæ Candishio conjunctissimi, cujus in consortio, explorabundis velis ambivit orbem: deinde Domino Baroni Gray; cui solator accessit in arca Londinensi. Quo defuncto, ad studia henrici Comitis Northumbriensis ibidem vocatis est, cujus filio instruendo cum aliquot annorum operam in hac Ecclesia dedisset et Academiae confinium locum valetudinariae senectuti commodum censuisset; in ædibus Johannis Smith, corpore exhaustus, sed animo vividus, expiravit die Maii 24, anno reparatae salutis 1632, aetatis suæ 79.

That what's laid down / notes (I can't think of the fancy english word for it)

from a very learned man, most consentious, religiously as well as moraly, Robert Hues,

on account of all kinds of eruditions, theology and then history, scholastism, philology, philosophy, but most importantly mathematics

(of which a great monument in images has been delivered). (huh?)

The first of Thomas Cavendish, with whom he was very closely connected, in whose compagny he took on the explorations of the coverings of the world:

then about Lord Baron Grey; whom he stood by as consoler in the Tower of Londen.

When the Lord had died, he was called to work with Henry Earl of Northumberland, also in the Tower, and because his son had to study, gave him work for several years in the church there, and he thought the medical school being nearby would be convenient for his old age; At John Smith's place, his body exhausted, but with a lively spirit, he breathed his last on 24 May, in the year in which he had regained his health 1632, at the age of 79.--Kladderadatsch (talk) 19:28, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks very much. How is this rewording that I did, based on your translation?

Here lies a highly literate man, of the highest moral and religious integrity, Robert Hues[;] on account of all kinds of erudition, Theology and then History, then Scholastics, Philology, Philosophy, but most importantly Mathematics (concerning which a great emblem of honour in print [i.e., his book] is left behind), he was first closely associated with Thomas Cavendish, in whose company he took up favourable explorations covering the globe; and secondly for the Lord Baron Gray, he came to him as consoler in the Tower of London. When he [Gray] died, he was summoned to the study of Henry Earl of Northumberland in the same place, [Northumberland] thinking that he could instruct his son and spend part of the year in this Church [i.e., Christ Church Cathedral], proximity to the School [i.e., Christ Church, Oxford] being convenient for him to regain his health in his old age; at the house of John Smith, his body exhausted, but with a lively spirit, he breathed his last on 24 May, in the year in which he had regained his health 1632, at the age of 79.

— Cheers, JackLee ^–talk– 08:26, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

aah, was this his epitaph in this church! Makes sense. And you're going to show the Latin text with translation underneath, I guess? I like it.

• I didn't say literate because I thought that means 'being able to write' as opposed to illiterate, but it's of course nicer because it's like the latin.
• "favourable explorations covering the globe" that's very smart because that's just what happened. I still do not understand the latin very well, explorabundus = gerundivum combined with some futurum??? Why do you say "favourable"?
• was he summoned to Northumberland, then?

Ok,it's quite a puzzle, but a nice one, see you--Kladderadatsch (talk) 19:01, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Actually I've never learned Latin before, but with the help of your translation, Wiktionary (!) and Google (!!) the above is what I came up with.

• In English literate does indeed mean "able to read and write", but if we say that someone is "highly literate" it means that he or she is very learned or well-read.

• ok thank you

• According to my researches, velis means "favourable". Or am I wrong? I have to say the word seems a little out of place in the sentence. I'm not sure what you meant by explorabundus being a gerundivum combined with some futurum. Could you (or someone else) explain?

• I hope someone else because the most important part of my remark was the ??? part.:) The suffix is so strange. I thinkyou're right, I put in the covering part because of the velis-word, so you can skip that. Sorry.

• According to my researches, vocatis means "to call, to summon".

• yes, but ibidem (same place) could also refer to the Tower. But you know what actually happened, I thought, that's why I asked.

• The relevant passage is "ad studia henrici Comitis Northumbriensis ibidem vocatis est". I think you're right that ibidem (in the same place) refers to the Tower of London; I think Northumberland summoned Hues to his study (studia?) that was in the Tower. As the article explains, Northumberland was also imprisoned in the Tower. — Cheers, JackLee ^–talk– 09:38, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
  • ? but why do you say that he was summoned to Northumberland, then? Studia is not study(room) but plural of studium; enthousiasm, striving, the things you're working on, care about. So this word could again emhasize the consoling part, to look after him, or it could say that they worked / studied together. Or it could even be more complicated :-)--Kladderadatsch (talk) 20:44, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
    • Could the sentence mean Hues was "summoned by Henry, Earl of Northumberland, for his studies"? That would also be consistent with what is known about the relationship between Hues and Northumberland from other sources (in English). — Cheers, JackLee ^–talk– 04:21, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
      • great! That's also how I meant 'called to work with the earl', like they would do some science project together, or they could really be teacher & pupil, I left that as it was.--Kladderadatsch (talk) 08:51, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

• The sentence "Quo defuncto, ad studia henrici Comitis Northumbriensis ibidem vocatis est, cujus filio instruendo cum aliquot annorum operam in hac Ecclesia dedisset et Academiae confinium locum valetudinariae senectuti commodum censuisset" is the one I'm most uncertain about, so it is highly possible I got the translation wrong. Do check.

• Yes I know, almost all the words can refer to several other words or persons, I think what you have now is quite clear.

— Cheers, JackLee ^–talk– 04:17, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

• bye--Kladderadatsch (talk) 09:18, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Re: die Maii 24, anno reparatae salutis 'on 24 May, in the year in which he had regained his health'.—Or you may find that anno reparatae salutis is merely 'in the year of recovered health'—i.e., 'in the year of salvation', an alternate way of saying Anno Domini. Jacob (talk) 18:45, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

That makes much more sense. Thanks for that. By the way, would either of you like to try and translate the remaining sentences below? — Cheers, JackLee ^–talk– 04:17, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

It does, doesn't it? I first thought in the year 1632 itself some healthy, blessed thing must have happened, like national peace regained, but that didn't get me much further.

I'llbe glad to do the next 2 little sentences soon.--Kladderadatsch (talk) 09:34, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

• Oxonii in parochiâ Sancti Aldati, inque Domicilio speciatim lapides, e regione insignis Afri cærulei, fatis concessit, et in ecclesiâ Ædis Christi Cathedrali humatus fuit an: dom: CIƆIƆXXXII.
  • (someone from? / in?) Oxford in the parish of Saint Aldatus, especially in which residence (are) blue stones from the region of remarkable Africa, gave way to the fates, and is buried in the cathedral Ædis Christi (house of Christ). AD1532 ((?) 1632 would have been CIƆIƆCXXXII) Ah, difficult, I did it now quite 'verbatim' so you can play around with it more easily, and because I don't get the general meaning of the sentence. (what's the subject? just 'he' implied in concessit (he has yielded) and fuit (he has been)?)--Kladderadatsch (talk) 22:14, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
    • Thanks! Based on information from other sources that is already in the article, I believe this sentence provides information about Hues' death. I have translated it as follows: "Oxford in the parish of St. Aldate, that is, in the dwelling of stone, from the region of the sign of the blue African (?), he gave way to the Fates, and was buried in the church of Christ Church Cathedral in the year of our Lord 1532 [sic: 1632]". According to the article, Hues died in Stone House, which was opposite the Blue Boar (which sounds like an inn or pub). Caerulei is "blue", but I'm not sure of the relation between Afri (which seems to mean "African") and a boar. — Cheers, JackLee ^–talk– 20:09, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
      • Yes, Afer, afri etc. was neatly in my dictionary, it's an adjective, so: of the blue African sign??? And seeing the rest of your sentence I think Oxonii could be 'in Oxford', the -i suffix would be a genitive, but maybe also a very rarely used case, the locativus, as in domus (a home) -> domi (at home)--Kladderadatsch (talk) 21:49, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
        • I have changed the translation to "In Oxford ..." and "blue African sign" (although the last phrase still doesn't make much sense to me!) — Cheers, JackLee ^–talk– 08:10, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

• In laminâ œneâ, eidem pariati impactâ talem cernis inscriptionem.
  • On the copper plate, driven to the same wall, you see such (of such a distinguished kind) a writing.--Kladderadatsch (talk) 22:09, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
    • Thanks very much. I've included the translation at footnote 32 of the article, amended slightly: "On the copper plate, driven to the same wall, you see such an inscription". (Which part of the sentence talks about a "distinguished kind" of writing?) — Cheers, JackLee ^–talk– 08:10, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
      • talis, talem = such, and can also mean such a very good or very bad. But maybe we don't need that.--Kladderadatsch (talk) 09:46, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Library trip

• Alumni Oxonienses - named is spelled "Hughes" and he graduated 12 July 1578
• Mathematicians' Apprentice - Hues retired to Oxford and became "a type of private tutor to Oxford men" (84); this book might have some good background information, but it was hard for me to tell
• Thomas Harriot and the Northumberland Household - waiting for this (should have by Tuesday)
• Herefordshire Biographies - not available at my library

I am therefore able to access all but one of the sources you could not. Yeah! Awadewit (talk) 05:44, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for going above and beyond the call of duty! It turns out I cannot access the article from Transactions of the Royal Historical Society after all. The National University of Singapore Central Library that I visited today does not have volume 14 in print (though it has volumes 13 and 15 – darn!), and I don't have online access to a digital version. If you can get hold of it that would be great. Atomism in England should be available at the Science Library of the National University of Singapore; will try to visit it some time this week. — Cheers, JackLee ^–talk– 10:40, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

I've emailed you. If you email me back, I can send you the Transactions article. Awadewit (talk) 12:50, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

The Transactions article only has a minor mention of Hues, which I've incorporated into the article. Still haven't had time to go to the Science Library. Will try this week. — Cheers, JackLee ^–talk– 08:12, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Have read chs. 2–4 of Atomism in England and added some information to the article. I also found a useful journal article online which clarifies the controversy over whether Harriot, Hues and Warner were Northumberland's "Three Magi". — Cheers, JackLee ^–talk– 08:53, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Suggestions by FA reviewers

Thanks to all reviewers! The article was upgraded to FA status before I could address some of your suggestions, but here are my responses nonetheless:

• Leaning support, my comments:
  • The first paragraph of the lead doesn't feel... leadish, more like a laundry list of movements of the subject. There's a lot of repetitious structure (Hues did this, Hues did that) that might be contributing to it. As it stands, it doesn't make me want to read on. Try changing the syntax and slimming down to just the highlights.
    • Comment: Hmmm, seems to read all right to me. Feel free to try improving the lead section if you wish. — JackLee, 18:54, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
  • "During the voyage, while in the South Atlantic Hues made astronomical observations, and also observed the variation of the compass there and at the Equator. " Not sure if that's grammatically incorrect, but I'll be damned if it isn't awkward-sounding.
    • Fixed. — JackLee, 18:54, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Reading on there's a continuing appearance of some rather strange wording, such as "At the age of 18 years, in 1571, he entered"... generally it would be better to preface with the date, i.e. "In 1571, at the age of 18 years..." Another example, "Following Grey's death, in 1616".
    • Fixed. — JackLee, 18:36, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
  • "At Oxford, a servitor was an undergraduate student who worked as a servant for fellows of the University in exchange for free accommodation and some meals, and exemption from paying fees for lectures." This comes off as extraneous that breaks the nice flow you've got. It's certainly interesting info that's germane, but it's not really proper inline; perhaps consider making an annotations section for content like this?
    • Fixed: I put this information in a footnote. — JackLee, 18:36, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
  • "Hues returned to England with Davis in 1593. During the voyage, while in the South Atlantic he made astronomical observations of the Southern Cross and other stars of the Southern Hemisphere, and also observed the variation of the compass there and at the Equator.[14] After reaching home, Hues published his discoveries in the work..." More awkward placement. The "during the voyage" sentence should come before the mention of his return. Also, with the "unfortunately" and the death of Cavendish right before, it casts some doubt as to whether they actually completed the circumnavigation or not. Please clarify for us unknowledgeable folks. :)
    • Fixed: It seems that the expedition was unsuccessful. — JackLee, 18:36, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
  • "The book was written to explain the use of the terrestrial and celestial globes that had been made and published by Emery Molyneux in late 1592 or early 1593,[16] and apparently to encourage English sailors to use practical astronomical navigation,[2] although Lesley Cormack has observed that the fact the book was written in Latin suggests that it was aimed at scholarly readers on the Continent." scratch the "and" from "and apparently", makes it sound more joined, although the phrasing sounds like Molyneux published it to encourage the English, not Hues.
    • Comment: I think the current phrasing is all right. As you point out, removing the and might make the sentence sound as if Molyneux rather than Hues published his globes to encourage the English to use practical astronomical navigation. — JackLee, 18:36, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Some people or phrases that, in addition to their wikilink, should probably have some small explanation of what they are: rhumb lines, John Davis
    • Partly fixed: I think it's not necessary to explain what rhumb lines are; interested readers can click on the wikilink. — JackLee, 18:36, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
  • "and were usually called the Earl of Northumberland's THREE MAGI" -> any reason for the small caps here, rather than quotes?
    • Comment: Thanks for taking time to review the article. Yes, the words were in small caps in the source. Am leaving for an overseas trip tomorrow – will try to look into some of your comments next week. — JackLee, 15:36, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
    • Fixed: The small caps were in the source, but I have asked about the matter on the Manual of Style talk page and other editors are of the view that this should be changed to Three Magi. — JackLee, 18:36, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
  • "Hues, who did not marry, died on 24 May 1632 in Stone House, St. Aldate's (opposite the Blue Boar in central Oxford),[35] which was the house of John Smith, M.A., the son of J. Smith, a cook at Christ Church.[14]" Could you cast aside some of these commas and make multiple straightforward sentences? --Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^(talk) 00:08, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
    • Fixed! — JackLee, 18:36, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

• Comments
  • "At Oxford, a servitor was an undergraduate student..." What do you think about perhaps moving this into a footnote that would appear right after "servitor"?
    • Fixed: Yes, I've done that. — JackLee, 18:36, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
  • "He gave advice to the dramatist and poet..." Perhaps "He would later give advice..." or "He would apply his knowledge of Greek..." and then "George Chapman for his _insert year_ English" just to make the timeline a bit clearer.
    • Fixed. — JackLee, 18:36, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
  • "According to the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography, there is unsubstantiated evidence" Well, ODNB articles list their sources, so this theory probably originated somewhere else, not the ODNB. :) Care to do a little more digging? (What evidence/why unsubstantiated?)
  • "an undated source " Could we be a bit more explicit here on what this means (either in text or as a footnote)?
    • Comment: Unfortunately, the ODNB doesn't indicate the sources of these facts. — JackLee, 18:54, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
  • "Unfortunately, Cavendish died " One of those words to avoid; in any case, deaths are always unfortunate. :) Perhaps be a bit clearer here instead ("Cavendish's death cut short the voyage" or similar...that is the case right?).
    • Fixed: This part of the article has been entirely rephrased following the insertion of more information. — JackLee, 18:36, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
  • What's the reason for the format of "THREE MAGI"?
    • Comment: Thanks for taking time to review the article. The words were in small caps in the source. Am leaving for an overseas trip tomorrow – will try to look into some of your comments next week. — JackLee, 15:36, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
    • Fixed: See my comment above. — JackLee, 18:36, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
  • "allied subjects" I'm unfamiliar with what this means.
    • Fixed: I've changed this to "related subjects". — JackLee, 18:36, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
  • I noticed that some of your sentences that are based on the ODNB article skirt a bit closely to the original wording. Please double check these and recast if necessary. This is probably the only thing that would prevent me from supporting.
  • I see now that I'm just echoing David on some of my points...great minds, etc., etc.? :)
  • Good work. BuddingJournalist 07:05, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, Jack! TwilligToves (talk) 01:12, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

• Support and comments A nice article, just a couple of quibbles
  • In the lead, there are a couple of sentences where beginning with the date makes it a bit clunky. To me at least, Between 1586 and 1588, Hues travelled with Thomas Cavendish on a circumnavigation of the globe, reads better as Hues travelled with Thomas Cavendish on a circumnavigation of the globe between 1586 and 1588 I note that this contradicts an earlier comment
    • Comment: In that case I'll leave it unchanged. Feel free to rephrase the sentence if you wish to. — JackLee, 18:36, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
  • I also don’t like the list of printing dates in the lead.
    • Fixed. — JackLee, 18:36, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
  • There is some unnecessary linking, Does "£" really need a link, and I wouldn’t have linked Oxford either
    • Partly fixed: Have removed the link to "£" according to "MOS:CURRENCY", but I think the "Oxford" link is fine. — JackLee, 18:36, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
  • I note your reason for the THREE MAGI capitalisation, but I'm not fully convinced that the original style should be kept
    • Fixed: See my comment above. — JackLee, 18:36, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

None of the above are big deals jimfbleak (talk) 06:27, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for taking the time to make changes even after getting the shiny bronze star :) I'll take a look at the lead when next I am able and see if I can effect some changes along my line of thinking. --Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^(talk) 19:02, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, I agree with David jimfbleak (talk) 05:42, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Little Hereford

The Wiki articles states that he was born in Little Hereford in Hertfordshire I think that this is incorrect and should be Herefordshire, as if you click on the link to Little Hereford you get taken to the page for the place in Herefordshire.

The mistake may have originally arisen in late 19th early 20th century encyclopedias I am reading from a copy of The Harmsworth Encyclopedia c.1910 in which the incorrect place of Hertfordshire is given.

The entry in this work also shows an alternative name of Husins

Alan Longbottom in Pudsey near Leeds —Preceding unsigned comment added by Historydb (talk • contribs) 19:22, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Hello, Alan. I think you are right. I looked up the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography again and it states "Little Hereford, Herefordshire". Thanks for pointing the error out. — Cheers, JackLee ^–talk– 07:17, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

First Paragraph

The first paragraph seems to me to contain a lot of superfluous material. I suggest tightening it up as follows:

Robert Hues (1553 – 24 May 1632) was an English mathematician and geographer. He graduated from St. Mary Hall, Oxford, in 1578 and may have travelled to Continental Europe thereafter. Hues became interested in geography and mathematics, and made observations of the variations of the compass off the coast of Newfoundland. He either went there on a fishing trip, or joined a 1585 voyage to Virginia arranged by Walter Raleigh and led by Richard Grenville which passed Newfoundland on the return journey to England. Between 1586 and 1588, Hues traveled with Thomas Cavendish on a circumnavigation of the globe, taking the opportunity to measure latitudes of places they visited. In 1589, Hues went on the Earl of Cumberland's raiding expedition to the Azores to capture Spanish galleons. Beginning in August 1591, Hues traveled with and Cavendish again, intending to complete left on another circumnavigation of the globe. They were accompanied by John Davis. During the voyage, Hues made astronomical observationswhile in the South Atlantic, and also continued his observations of the variation of the compass there and at the Equator at various latitudes and longitudes. In 1592, Cavendish died on the journey, and Hues returned to England with Davis in 1593.

Justifications: 1) who cares if he "may have traveled to Continental Europe"? Did he do anything noteworthy while he "may" have been there? 2) Why he was in Newfoundland is not appropriate for the lead, especially since this is speculation anyway. 3) Why do we care that Hue went on the Earl of Cumberland's raiding expedition? Did he do anything noteworthy? What makes his trip more noteworthy than the First Mate? 4) It may be important to a narrative of Cavendish's second circumnavigation that John Davis was along, but it seems entirely superfluous to the story of Robert Hues - especially in the lead paragraph. I've only read the first paragraph of this article, but I'm wondering if Hues did anything other than hang out with the right crowd. [Okay, I've now read three paragraphs. It seems his accomplishment was "Tractatus de globis et eorum usu (Treatise on Globes and their Use)." That, and the circumstances surrounding the research, and publication should be what is featured in the lead. The first two paragraphs of the lead can easily be combined.] Frankly, I am surprised that this article was given FA status with this quality of writing.--Paul (talk) 00:35, 16 June 2010 (UTC)