Talk:Rienzi

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Comment

One of Wagner's greatest works, this opera is powerful and inspirational, both in its musical genius, and in the über-Romanticist plot, which Wagner so eloquently conveys, through his masterful use of the German language. (If I may digress: translations of the master's works really don't do them justice...) The opera, as Wagner himself, is often attacked for what happened long after Wagner's death in 1883, namely the rise of Hitler and the Third Reich. Had Wagner lived during the time of the NAZIs, or had they existed when he was alive, he may very well have been one of their strongest supporters, but the fact of the matter is that such was not the case. Whether one likes his politics or not, upon even the most objective analysis of his works, even a radical Zionist would have to admit that Wagner was one of the greatest artists of all time. Heil Wagner!

Synopsis?

Why is this the only Wagner opera on Wikipedia without a synopsis on the plot? Please someone write one

...probably due to the undeserved resentment discussed above. at any rate I'd be happy to give a summary. It's been some time since I sat through it from beginning to end. Additionally, I am rushing through the summary. I have other things to do, so I'm sorry for the poor quality and lack of Wagnerian elloquence that actually watching it would yield, but here's my version: After a fantastic overture, the curtain rises in medieval Rome. the steet outside Irene's window is filled with nobleman Orsini's men. They want fair Irene and set a ladder against the window. They take her against her will as rival nobleman Colona arrives. He also seeks Irene, but his son, Adriano, rescues her from the hands of the nobles. Just then, her brotehr, Rienzi, a hero of the people and a man disillusioned with the status of once great Rome, enters. He sees the ladder and understand what had been taking place. He rallies the people against the nobles. The tumult had been ocurring on a street in front of a church. The priest, Raimondo, had begged the sinful nobles to stop, but they had insulted him. Raimondo assures Rienzi that the church will back him in his efforts to free Rome from their tyrrany. Irene tells Rienzi that Adriano had saved her, thus Rienzi entrusts his siter into her newfound lover's care, whilst he prepares to defeat the nobles.

Rienzi has power but the nobles plot their revenge. Having joined forces, the once warring nobles plan to assassinate Rienzi at the festival he is holding to celebrate his victory. The festival begins with about a 15 min instrumental ballet. The dances symbolize the union of the glory of ancient Rome and modern. Rienzi often speaks of Rome's former glory, which had been stolen by the noble tyrants. Parallels can be seen with Germany, as Hitler saw himself as Rienzi restoring Germania to its former glory. Adriano hears his father plotting against Rienzi, der Tribun, as he wishes to be called. He speaks out against the conspirators, but Colona gets angry with his son, telling him to go serve his precious Tribune. Adriano warns Rienzi of impending danger but is not specific, for he faces much moral dilema (whether to betray his father or his love). Rienzi has armor beneath his toga, so when (I believe) Colonna attacks him with a knife, he is not hurt. The nobles are arrested and about to be executed. Adriano pleads with Rienzi not to make him (Adriano) his father's murderer. Rienzi, reluctantly (and fatefully) shows mercy. Also at the festival, Rienzi's ambition gets the better of him. Not content with just Rome, he wishes to make all of Italy free, and he disputes the rule of the Holy Roman Empire. This angers the Bavarian and Bohemian ambassadors.

The nobles had sworn allegiance but betray it, and Rienzi prepares to do battle. Adriano again attempts to stop him, but this time with no success. Rienzi comes back victorious. Adriano now swears vengeance. Conspiritors again gather. The cardinal has left Rome. The church has abandoned Rome as long as it is led by brazen Rienzi who has disputed with the church. I'll get back to this later. I'm tired sorry...

Recordings

Why is the Edward Downes BBC recording not mentioned in the "Recordings" section? Is it not considered a "major" recording?

Wikipedia is the encyclopedia that anyone can edit. Why don't you just add it to the Recordings section yourself? (Oh, and could you please sign your postings by clicking the signature button (10th from the left above), as I am about to do: --GuillaumeTell 00:35, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've heard it said. . .

. . .that the reason why we don't hear the complete score of "Rienzi" anymore is because the score is one of the things Hitler took to the bunker with him. Is this true? If so, shouldn't we mention it?

see article.--Smerus (talk) 10:34, 26 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Some thoughts

Wagner's "subsequent need to flee" makes it sound as if it was due to the "lack of influence" just mentioned. I'm pretty sure that his usual lack of funds was the cause and this should be clarified provided someone has a source to hand.

Is it worth mentioning the story of Wagner's stopping the clock at the first performance?

Oh, and if we're mentioning 100 Dresden performances, it is probably also worth mentioning that he reached 200 there in the first decade of the 20th century.--Peter cohen (talk) 11:48, 26 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

btw Talk:Rienzi/Comments has some views on what needed work a year ago.--Peter cohen (talk) 11:51, 26 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

There's still room for highlighting significant numbers. Grove mentions some, but I wanted to double source if possible. In searching the web, for Rienzi+extracts+Wagner, I was surprised to find a Swedish heavy metal band as the first hit. I'll do more searching later.--Peter cohen (talk) 13:36, 28 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Date format

It appears that the dmy date format was the first date format to be used in this article. Check this edit. --Robert.Allen (talk) 17:31, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

What was the edition used for the Downes performance? Has it been published? And if there is a case for listing recordings of the Overture, I'm puzzled that Weingartner's wasn't included. He did hear Wagner conduct - possibly not this piece, but not many of those who heard Wagner conduct anyhting made records.Delahays (talk) 14:48, 27 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Infobox?

I suggest an infobox, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:33, 26 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

done --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:04, 31 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Apologies Gerda, only just seen this. I don't think it very appropriate. Have removed it pending further discussion. I suggest that idf you are going to add these boxes as you have at other Wagner operas, you raise the issue first at WP:Opera and WP:Wagner.--Smerus (talk) 10:09, 27 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Rienzi/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Comment(s)

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Lower end of Start class. Suggested improvements:

More background information, especially about different versions
More performance history
A synopsis needs to be included in the article - an external link to one is unsatisfactory
Notable arias, etc (e.g. Rienzi's Prayer) need to be shown, preferably within the synopsis
More about the music and critical appreciation of the opera
At least one illustration is needed
Inline references from more sources are needed

--GuillaumeTell 21:45, 6 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Lower end of Start class (34 points) Suggested improvements as GuillaumeTell above.

Main requirement is obviously the synopsis.
Separate biographical articles on the major singers would help fill in the background. (At the moment there is only one.)
Barry Millington's article in Grove has useful information.
There is a famous painting of Rienzi (the opera) by Baron von Leyser which would be good to have.

-- Kleinzach 00:02, 7 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Assorted hands have worked this article into something that provides the basic information some readers will find useful. The strengths of the article are the full list of roles and initial performers and the recordings list which both receive marks appropriate to higher grade articles. However, it would be useful to distinguish more clearly recordings of the opera and of just the overture and to provide links to those performers on recordings who have or should have articles. I agree with the comments by the reviewers above, but would add that musical illustrations (providing they are in line with Wikipedia's policy on sound samples) would be most useful as few people will have heard extracts of the opera. Also, I wish to emphasise the value of inline referencing at an early stage of an article's life. When we eventually try to get this article to Good Article grade, we will need to know which facts are sourced from where.

The marking scheme indicates where points can most easilly be picked up. Anything below the equivalent of 30% is weaker than the start class grading of the overall article. Background 3/15; Performance history 7/15; List of roles 5/5; Synopsis 3/15; Notable Arias 0/5; Discussion of Music/critical appreciation 2/15; Recordings 7/10; Illustrations 0/10; Notes/Sources/Links 5/15; Total 32/100 Start class.--Peter cohen 13:16, 8 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Last edited at 19:43, 9 September 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 04:28, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

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