Talk:Richard Watts Charities

"Refounded"

@Martin of Sheffield: Your edit summary, when you restored the word "originally" in front of "founded", read "the school was refounded by Henry VIII". What do you mean by "refounded"? You can't "found" something that already exists. Largoplazo (talk) 10:57, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

You'll need to have a read of the school's page where it gives a brief history. I don't know how familiar with English history you are, but between 1536 and 1541 King Henry VIII of England dissolved (abolished) monasteries throughout England as part of the Reformation which split Western Christianity at this period. The priory of St. Andrews in Rochester was dissolved and as the school was part of the priory it would have been abolished also. The school was therefore refounded by the King (along with the schools at Canterbury, Chester, Ely, Gloucester, Peterborough and Worcester). The school was the same one that had existed for over 900 years, but now it had a new legal framework. HTH, Martin of Sheffield (talk) 11:15, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for the details. It appears, then, that the use of the word "refounded", is fallacious, as is the designation "the school", as though only one school were involved. Henry abolished a school. Then he founded another school and gave it the same name as the one he'd terminated. If he'd founded a school and gave it a name of its own, no one would think of it as a "refounding" of the school. But giving it the same name doesn't equate to it being the same school. Largoplazo (talk) 12:40, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

The school wasn't closed, it was the Priory that was closed. There was still a requirement for boy trebles for church services and the school continued to provide them. The "foundation" is a precise legal term for the statutes and charters which govern the operation of both school and cathedral. For instance choirboys are to this day "admitted to the foundation" of the cathedral when they complete their probationary period. This endows them with certain legal rights which last for the rest of their lives. But this foundation is the 1542 foundation, not the 604 one. See this timeline for an outline of the cathedral's history.

To try and make it easier to understand. Consider a company like Opel. The company started in 1886, was taken over by General Motors in 1929, nationalised under the Nazis, repossessed by GM after the war and is about to be sold to Groupe PSA. It has remained the same company in continuous production throughout. Likewise, a man may work for many employers in his lifetime, but we generally accept he is the same man! Martin of Sheffield (talk) 13:14, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

Opel was founded in 1886, then "taken over by General Motors in 1929, nationalised under the Nazis, repossessed by GM after the war and is about to be sold to Groupe PSA." It was founded once. Otherwise, it's like saying someone was "originally born" to one woman and was then "reborn" when adopted by another. Largoplazo (talk) 13:25, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

I refer you to the Oxford English Dictionary:

refound ... to found (a town, etc.) again; to re-establish.

— "refound". Oxford English Dictionary. Vol. XIII (2nd ed.). Oxford University Press. 1989. p. 484.

Quotations include 1500-20 "our fayth is now refoundit", 1641 "Her service hath Preserv'd the Kingdom, and refounded Cyprus" and 1754 "The first foundation of the church by Wilfrid, and the refounding by K. H. 8th".

Would you have a similar problem with the near synonym "establish"? "I re-established radio contact with the yacht" does not imply a gynaecological improbability. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 13:59, 7 March 2017 (UTC)