Talk:Rhodesia and Nyasaland at the 1960 Summer Olympics

FRN

Rhodesia (RHO) (obviously Northern Rhodesia + Southern Rhodesia) in 1928 and not just Southern Rhodesia.

Athletes from the Federation of Rhodesia and Nyasaland (1953-1963) participated at the Olympics under IOC country code FRN. I found that info in an xls file on my computer but do not know where I found it and downloaded from.

If they participated under the RHO country code then a more important question arise. That is: Did they all appear under the RHO - meaning Rhodesia (Northern and Southern) + Nyasaland (now Malawi). If this is the case then Malawi also have to be mentioned. -- Imbris (talk) 23:59, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

That country was a federation of Protectorate of Northern Rhodesia, Colony of Southern Rhodesia and Nyasaland Protectorate.

After independence there were: Northern Rhodesia (NRH) and Rhodesia (RHO) - in fact Southern Rhodesia which competed independently.

Why are all of those appearances attributed to Zimbabwe.

Imbris (talk) 02:00, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

There is no evidence of "FRN" used as a country code in any of the Olympic official reports, Olympic Review magazines, Journal of Olympic History, etc., so I doubt that spreadsheet you have is very reliable

You say that "all of those appearances [are] attributed to Zimbabwe", but they are not. NRH in 1964 is atttributed to Zambia. Only RHO in 1928 (two boxers: Cecil Bissett and Leonard (Len) Hall, both of which show as "ZIM" for a nationality by sports historians), 1960, and 1964 are attributed to Zimbabwe. Perhaps it is confusing to you that the name was called "Rhodesia" at these Games, although it only represented Southern Rhodesia.

At the 49th IOC session in May 1954, "North Rhodesia" was a candidate for a newly recognized NOC, but was "left in suspense temporarily" on account of the "aim at a fusion between North and South Rhodesia". This implies that South Rhodesia was a distinct NOC at the time. The minutes of the 50th IOC session in June 1955 states: Regarding Northern Rhodesia. the E. B. intends to recognize without further discussion, its national Olympic Committee, as soon as the committee of that country will have merged with the committees of Southern Rhodesia and Nyassaland. Note the use of plural "committees"—each colony had its own committee. That merger never took place, as the minutes of the 60th IOC session in October 1963 state: In any case, the recognition of Southern Rhodesia would stand. Northern Rhodesia had asked for recognition. So communication had been received from Nyassaland. This also implies the possible existence of three NOCs for each of the three colonies of the federation, instead of one NOC as you think is the case. Of course, only two of those (possible) three actually were recognized, for the 1964 Tokyo Games, as there was no entry from Nyasaland. The Olympic and Commonwealth Games Association of Malawi was not founded until 1967. The Olympic Review listings for the Rhodesia Empire & Olympic Games Association in the early 60s always show "(Southern Rhodesia)", and then in 1964, start showing a distinct listing for the newly recognized Northern Rhodesia Olympic and Empire Games Association. All of this evidence seems to make clear that the NOC for "Rhodesia" represented just the Colony of Southern Rhodesia, and the NOC for "Northern Rhodesia" represented the Protectorate of Northern Rhodesia, so the respective succession to Zimbabwe and Zambia is very clear. You must realize that there is not always a 1:1 mapping between National Olympic Committees and sovereign nations. For example, even today there are NOCs for Hong Kong, Bermuda, and Puerto Rico (to cite three examples), none of which are independent nations. You also seem to be stuck on this whole issue of "legal succession". I don't know what your WP:POINT is for this specific article, but there is nothing that needs to be done with it except complete the stub with the full results of that team. — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 18:33, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

What a great reply but still I belive that RHO must have represented both RHS (1964) and RHN (1964) before the 49th IOC session in May 1954 when IOC discussed the application of RHN. Therefore for all of the Olympic Games before 1954 we should consider RHO to represent both Rhodesias.

Also FRN existed but as Commonwealth Games designation during the existance of that federation.

Despite the fact that those athletes came from what is today Zimbabwe, Rhodesia comprised of two entities and that should be noted. Also what should be noted that RHO designation was not used in 1964 but RHS and RHN (or NRH).

There should be considered that in 1960 team Rhodesia competed for the Federation and not just the Rhodesia, even if that is not listed in the Olympic sources it should be mentioned and linked to what we have on that federation on Wiki.

Imbris (talk) 23:14, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

No, that's not right. In 1964 it was RHO for "Rhodesia" and NRH for "Northern Rhodesia". Check out page 9 (of the PDF file) of the 1964 official report here. I am convinced that the "Rhodesia" team of 1960–1964 represented only Southern Rhodesia, based on all the sources found above.

As for the two boxers in 1928, it is not entirely clear what the extent of territory the NOC represented. The minutes of the July 1928 IOC meeting state The decision of the Executive Committee to allow Malta and Rhodesia to compete as independent nations in the Games of the IXth Olympiad was approved. That's all. Our article on Southern Rhodesia states that The whites in the territory south of the river paid it scant regard though, and generally used the name 'Rhodesia' in a narrow sense to mean their part, so that would imply that it was common at the time for the name "Rhodesia" to just be applied to Southern Rhodesia, especially for a white-controlled Olympic committee. Given that in the 50s, there were committees responsible for each of the two colonies, I wouldn't say it is likely that the 1928 committee represented two or more colonies and that changed in the next couple of decades. — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 23:43, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

This is the source where I found RHN and RHS codes. In all fairness that source is biased towards the YUG issue. Here is the link to Olympics.ro a Romanian site.

I recognize the content on that site! It's nothing more than a rip-off Wikipedia mirror of an older, inaccurate and unsourced version of List of IOC country codes. It is nowhere near reliable. — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 16:24, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Rhodesia at the 1928 Summer Olympics which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RM bot 22:16, 20 December 2010 (UTC)