Talk:Red Dead Redemption 2/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Dutch in Micah's camp

I've changed the description at the end of the plot to make Dutch's presence in Micah's camp more ambiguous, since that's what the game presents. The previous text said Dutch and Micah were working together, which I don't think is explicit at all; Micah says something along the lines of "lots of old friends dropping by today," implying Dutch has only recently arrived, and when John asks Dutch what he's doing there, he says "same as you, I suppose." And then of course he shoots Micah. The implication to me is that Dutch arrived around the same time as John, to kill Micah. That's obviously an extrapolation, but so is "Dutch and Micah are working together," so I've worded it to more closely reflect what the player witnesses. Dr-ziego (talk) 14:35, 21 January 2019 (UTC)

reception of online mode

The 'reception' section could do with being expanded to include the recent online mode which has seen rather lukewarm reviews to say the least.81.108.165.3 (talk) 22:38, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

The online mode is covered in a seperate article. Lordtobi (✉) 06:46, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

Create a file size section on the infobox

Since the game has been released for both PlayStation 4 and Xbox One, I think it would be useful to include a file size section on the infobox, quoting the file sizes from the respective stores (89.16 GB on the Microsoft/Xbox store and close to 105 GB on Sony's PlayStation Store.) --Fandelasketchup (talk) 00:27, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

File size fluctuates with every update and is not equal on both platforms. There are also rarely any sources that cover this. It is just another of those technical specifications we had removed some years ago. Lordtobi (✉) 09:59, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

This isn't the right destination for this discussion, should be at Template talk:infobox video game, however file sizes fluctuate, and aren't encyclopedic information regardless. RS don't mention it, and even if they did for some reason, it's suitable for prose. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:26, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

Awards

@Rhain and Wrath X: Do we really need to list each and every outlet that gave RDR2 an award, instead of just a few notable examples? I believe we have List of accolades received by Red Dead Redemption 2 for this. The present sentence is 152 words/1,056 characters long, and if we added every award there is (granted alone that Rockstar's "over 175 GOTYs" number holds up), we would have to add a bazillion more. Lordtobi (✉) 12:07, 26 October 2019 (UTC)

I agree that it's definitely being pushed at this point, especially with the multiple mentions of different language editions of outlets such as Gamereactor. Any further outlets found should be listed on the accolades talk page to be added to the table, and the prose should probably be limited to 20–30 outlets (not 50, as it currently stands). I can look into doing this tomorrow, when I add these latest additions to the table. – Rhain ☔ 15:12, 26 October 2019 (UTC)

Yeah I agree, I went a bit overboard. Since this game has its own accolades article, all awards should be listed there. The main article should probably summarize the game's awards history while listing some examples (limited to 20–30 outlets as Rhain mentioned). -- Wrath X (talk) 23:44, 26 October 2019 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Red Dead Redemption 2/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Leonidas1206 (talk · contribs) 16:48, 30 October 2019 (UTC)

Comments

• I think the sentence "The player can only get remove their bounty by paying it off at a post office" may be wrong. 'Get' should be removed and 'their' removed by 'his'. Leonidas1206 (talk) 16:57, 30 October 2019 (UTC)

• In the paragraph Characters, the Braitwathes are mentioned two times. I know this is not wrong, but I would suggest another formulation. Leonidas1206 (talk) 17:01, 30 October 2019 (UTC)

• Also in that paragraph, Rains Fall and Eagle Flies are mentioned, but I think you should add that they become some sort of allies of Dutch's gang too. Leonidas1206 (talk) 17:04, 30 October 2019 (UTC)

• Rhodes is never mentioned in the article, even though it is a pretty important town in the storyline. Leonidas1206 (talk) 17:06, 30 October 2019 (UTC)

Thanks, Leonidas1206! I've made some changes based on these suggestions so far. – Rhain ☔ 00:59, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

• Is it known who these 400 other people were? "When Rockstar Games realized that a group of distinct studios would not necessarily work, it co-opted all of its studios into one large team to facilitate development between 1,600 people; a total of around 2,000 people worked on the game." Leonidas1206 (talk) 10:37, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

I wish I could say for sure; the interview says that "2,000 people worked on the game, 1,600 of which were developers". I assume the other 400 were either non-employees of Rockstar (such as musicians and outsourced staff) or people who didn't necessarily "develop" the game (such as marketing and PR), but I can't say for sure. – Rhain ☔ 10:41, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

OK. Leonidas1206 (talk) 10:53, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

• Would it be possible to use some more pictures in the article? I would certainly use a picture of dead eye, or perhaps some pictures of a town/city or character. Leonidas1206 (talk) 10:55, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

The article already features three non-free images, which is probably starting to push it. An image of a town/city or character isn't an entirely necessary visual component, but I think a short video or GIF of the Dead Eye system may be possible with an effective rationale; it would be a beneficial accompaniment to the text, which is unable to truly explain how the system works without a visual component. Let me know your thoughts. – Rhain ☔ 11:08, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

I think the dead eye is the only one that (in my opinion) is really important. The other ones aren't really necessary. Leonidas1206 (talk) 11:19, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

@Leonidas1206: How's this? – Rhain ☔ 12:02, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

That's exactly what I meant. Perfect! Leonidas1206 (talk) 15:19, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

• Non-reviewer comment: I feel like the companion app ("RDR2: Companion"), which released alongside the game for Android and iOS, should be mentioned in some capacity.[1][2][3][4] Lordtobi (✉) 12:43, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

@Lordtobi: Good point! I somehow totally forgot about the app, even though I've had it downloaded since launch. I've added a mention to the article (and the Development article). – Rhain ☔ 12:52, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

Overall As a great fan of the game, I'm very happy to announce that the article Red Dead Redemption 2 has passed the good article criteria. The article is very complete and interesting, and I have nothing to complain about, nor about language, nor about style. Congratulations! Leonidas1206 (talk) 12:16, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

Google stadia

If Google Stadia is not considered a platform there needs to be some consistency, on Destiny 2’s page Stadia is listed as a platform. I haven’t checked every stadia game but there might be others JcIceberg4514 (talk) 22:21, 26 November 2019 (UTC)

The general consensus has been to include and is a part of MOS:VG here: [5]. Not sure why this has still been disputed.  Spy-cicle💥  ^Talk? 21:42, 1 December 2019 (UTC)

Plot section concerns

I took a look at the synopsis section for this article and found it extremely difficult to follow. The plot summary alone is >810 words, which is generally longer than it should be per the guidelines, and the excessive detail makes it harder to parse. The characters section is currently being used to basically name every single character, and it's incomprehensible with long lists of names and their actors, one after another. Minor characters who are named should probably just be referred to in the plot section, and characters who aren't important to the plot retelling at all—the Guardian rebel leader Fontain, the rival gangs, Eagle Flies, Henry Favours, etc.—should probably be cut. Especially since you've split so much of this content off into separate articles, this should be much shorter.

Other points of confusion:

• Micah ambushes Arthur, and Dutch intervenes in their fight. Arthur convinces Dutch to abandon Micah and leave. If the player has high honor, Arthur succumbs to his injuries and disease and dies peacefully while watching the sunrise; if the player has low honor, Micah executes him. The "Arthur convinces" line seems like it only makes sense for the "high honor" ending? It's unclear what intervention Dutch has in the fight.
• The gang also includes his best friend—whose best friend? Dutch or Arthur?

--Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^talk 18:27, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

@David Fuchs: Arthur convinces Dutch to leave in both the high honor and low honor endings. Dutch's intervention is just to stop the fight; once he leaves, Micah either leaves (high honor) or executes Arthur (low honor). Clarifying this in too much detail is difficult with the word limit. I've just cut out around 50 words and significantly shortened the incomprehensible lists of names and actors. – Rhain ☔ 01:10, 10 December 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 June 2020

Considered by many critics to be one of the greatest video games of all time. 2A02:C7F:72C3:E000:D144:FDC4:85B1:B59E (talk) 19:07, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ‑‑ElHef (Meep?) 19:45, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

Smoking and drinking

Unlike the occasional references to drink, drugs and tobacco in GTA, RDR2 shows most characters central to the story smoking and drinking. Cut scenes show the hero and people he talks to smoking and drinking. This is based on content provided from the game. Go ahead and delete it though, because reasons. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.79.52.200 (talk) 08:52, 23 July 2020 (UTC)

If a reliable source considers it important enough to discuss, then it can be included. Otherwise, it just seems like a random piece of information with no relevance. – Rhain ☔ 08:55, 23 July 2020 (UTC)

Rockstar North

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-7970057/Co-founder-video-game-firm-famous-making-Grand-Theft-Auto-Red-Dead-Redemption-quit.html

https://www.ign.com/articles/red-dead-redemption-10-years-on-how-rockstar-won-the-west

Why they are not mentioned in the article as developers? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:214C:840F:D800:8C8:B29C:8281:7D24 (talk) 20:41, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

Neither of those sources actually mention Rockstar North’s work on the game, but they are part of Rockstar Studios, which is mentioned throughout the article. – Rhain ☔ 20:48, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

Incorrect use of term "prequel" in description

Red Dead Redemption 2 was a sequel (not prequel) to Red Dead Redemption. Goosewah (talk) 02:31, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

@Goosewah: Check out the definition at prequel: "A prequel is a ... work whose story precedes that of a previous work, by focusing on events that occur before the original narrative". – Rhain ☔ 02:39, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Red Dead 2 billboard.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 14:24, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

Sources from Forbes contributors

I've been guilty of adding one recently since being aware of this, but I must enquire as to why we have several articles from Forbes' contributors sourced despite them being generally considered unreliable per WP:VG/S? I'm just surprised that no major contributor to this article, like Rhain, has removed these as I'm sure they are aware of this guideline. Wikibenboy94 (talk) 21:11, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

I've always been aware of the guideline, though I guess I've just chosen to ignore it, as I've always personally considered the "senior contributors" (Dave Thier, Paul Tassi, Erik Kain) more reliable. That being said, their removal from this article wouldn't be too difficult if necessary. – Rhain ☔ 22:59, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

I think "Senior" only means that they have been doing it for some time, which does not necessarily infer a higher quality. The authors should be judged on a case-by-case basis; Thier appears to have some journalistic experience with AOL News and several bylines, Kain and Tassi not so much. They could be discussed individually at WT:VG/RS but you might be best off with just removing all Forbes stuff and avoid possible non-RS claims in the future (especially if you're eyeing an FA). IceWelder [✉] 23:19, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

I understand that "senior" doesn't really denote reliability; I've just personally considered those three writers somewhat reliable. Based on previous discussions about Forbes, I don't think I'll be changing any opinions at WT:VG/RS anytime soon, so I won't bother. I'm not necessarily eyeing an FA in the near future (though this is probably my best candidate), but I've removed them anyway. – Rhain ☔ 00:58, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

Agree with removal per WP:FORBESCON as they are non-RS material (recently removed them from all Black Mirror episodes for the same reason).  Spy-cicle💥  ^Talk? 19:43, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

Considered as an art form

The article's lead mentions that Red Dead Redemption 2 is "considered as an example of video games as an art form", which it probably is, but there's nothing sourced that directly supports this and neither does the linked page mention the game. Does anyone have a valid reason as to why the comment should stay without verifiability? Wikibenboy94 (talk) 16:26, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

@Wikibenboy94: This is expanded upon and sourced in the first paragraph of Critical response. – Rhain ☔ 21:32, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

Introduction

The article states that it was the “prequel” to 2010’s Red Dead Redemption. I think obviously it’s meant to say “sequel,” but I’m not allowed to edit. 76.89.96.249 (talk) 01:16, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

Nope, it's a prequel. – Rhain ☔ (he/him) 01:57, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

Need for citation

The whole introduction part is written without any citations. Is this intentional? If not, please provide necessary citations for the claims stated in the introduction. Ifteebd10 (talk) 18:37, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

@Ifteebd10 WP:LEADCITE. Yes, we normally exclude citations from the lead and infobox unless the detail is contentious. Everything in the lead and infobox is suppose to exist, with sourcing, in the article body. -- ferret (talk) 19:51, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

@Ferret thanks for letting me know! Ifteebd10 (talk) 20:34, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

Einstein (dog)

Greetings. I just closed Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Einstein (dog) to reflect an apparent consensus to merge that article to this one. It also closed as a redirect, so the revision in question would be this one. — 🦊 04:12, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

 Done, added some information about Einstein to Development of Red Dead Redemption 2. – Rhain ☔ (he/him) 05:16, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

Developer

I've been wondering if the developer should be listed as Rockstar Games instead of Rockstar Studios. While Max Payne 3 and Red Dead Redemption 2 are similar in that they were developed by a collaboration between Rockstar's studios, their branding appears to be different. While MP3 is explicitly branded as a "Rockstar Studios Production", RDR2 is a "Rockstar Games Production" (per the official back cover art)12.

I could not find any mention of Rockstar Studios at all in RDR2's opening or ending credits. In fact, MP3 and RDR2's end credits are presented differently; MP3 credits the different studios that worked on it and lists the staff under the studio they worked from, RDR2 doesn't mention the studios at all instead listing the staff as if they all worked under a single studio.

The only time I recall Rockstar mentioning Rockstar Studios was the developer of RDR2 was a page on its website but that page has been removed now. The Rockstar Store is active though and it lists MP3's developer as Rockstar Studios while RDR2's developer as Rockstar Games. Other stores such as Steam also list the same but I suppose Rockstar's store is more relevant. The physical discs of the games also do the same (see MP3 and RDR2).

I also suspect GTA VI will also be branded as a Rockstar Games Production but that's just speculation. -- Wrath X (talk) 02:16, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

I don't have a particularly strong opinion either way, but it may be worth noting the aforementioned page on Rockstar's website listed "Rockstar Studios" for some time after release—until at least 2020, after which the site was seemingly redesigned and the page lost. – Rhain ☔ (he/him) 02:33, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

I remember that page being up before the game's release. Maybe Rockstar initially decided to use Rockstar Studios but have since moved to Rockstar Games. I lean a wee bit to Rockstar Games since that's official branding but I'll wait to see what others think. -- Wrath X (talk) 02:43, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

Rockstar's store also says "Rockstar Games" for Red Dead Redemption 1, GTA5, the GTA Trilogy, Bully, and even L.A. Noire. RDR2 was originally credited to Rockstar Studios, so we should not retcon this based on a webstore design. IceWelder [✉] 08:16, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

Good catch. That said, I brought up other points about the in game credits only mentioning Rockstar Games and not mentioning Rockstar Studios at all, the official back cover art and physical disc listing Rockstar Games as developer, and the article sources.

The only Rockstar source that mentioned Rockstar Studios as developer was the now removed webpage, but similar to you pointing out about the webstore, this can also be dubious. The Rockstar website lists Rockstar North as developer for GTA 1, 2, and 3; this is technically true but instead we list DMA Design as developer because this is how they were actually branded. Similarly, I think that Rockstar Studios and Rockstar Games are functionally the same in that they are an umbrella term for all studios but it's branded as Studios for MP3 and Games for RDR2. -- Wrath X (talk) 09:51, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

Hmmm, the discrepancy here is weird because the sources you removed (IGN and GameRevolution) explicitly state "Rockstar Studios" as the developer. Perhaps based on the former information page? IceWelder [✉] 10:22, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

I suspect they mention Studios because of the now removed page. The IGN one is even styled similarly to Wikipedia's infobox so I can't help but feel even Wiki influenced it. Just assumptions though. Regardless, the sources I brought up (Variety and the other IGN) I think are much more reliable since these were interviews with the developers and are more in depth, backed up by official in game credits, cover art, etc. Wrath X (talk) 10:35, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

There doesn't seem to be a lot of strong opinions regarding this so I'll go through with the edit. If anyone has anything else to say please do. -- Wrath X (talk) 07:34, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

Proposal for A-Class Article Status

Hi,

I am not certain if there is a standard formatting for these proposals, so I am sorry if there is. However, I did read A-Class criteria, so I do at least know the basic method.

Anyway, I believe that this article certainly meets the requirements for an A-Class article. I believe that it meets the Featured article criteria well enough for being well-written, comprehensive, well-researched, neutral, stable, compliant with Wikipedia's copyright policy, to be considered as an A-Class article.

I love this article, and I love this game, so it would be great to see it be A-Class! Coulomb1 (talk) 01:25, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

@Coulomb1: Thanks for sharing your thoughts. This article's primary WikiProject, WP:VG, does not assess A-class per WP:VG/A, so such an assessment is not possible on there, while WP:WESTERN has no A-class articles to date, so that assessment seems unlikely (or, at least, largely unprecedented). – Rhain ☔ (he/him) 01:31, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 March 2024

I would like to be able to be able to make articles about towns, states, and some other topics that do not have links. Collin King (talk) 20:41, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. – Rhain ☔ (he/him) 21:11, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

64 Million Units Sold

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/take-two-moves-grand-theft-auto-6-out-of-current-fiscal-year 2A00:23C6:D584:5B01:5843:1535:EB65:366 (talk) 20:47, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

"Sold in" not sold. - X201 (talk) 21:21, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Western... or Southern?

American crocodile lives in Florida, which should match to Lemoyne. Mexico to deep south.

Assuming that the compaction of the fictional states in RDR2 has little to match with the surface and real position of the states to which they refer, would it be more correct to say "set in 1899 in a fictionalized version of the Southern United States"? In fact, New Austin represents Texas, for example. But above all it is clear the reference to the southern states - topics related to slavery in the United States, American Civil War, weather and the American crocodile in the Lemoyne - and also the position of waters in the map suggests a miniaturized version of the Gulf of Mexico. Not surprisingly to the extreme south there's Nuevo Paradiso (Mexico).

It's a little thing after all, but just wanted to know what others think about it. Lone Internaut (talk) 14:41, 6 February 2019 (UTC)

New Austin does not represent Texas, it represents Arizona. It's stated in Red Dead 1 that west of that is California. Also, Texas is mentioned in-game through news articles. RDR2 spans from the real-life equivalent of Arizona, to Colorado, Kansas, Arksansas, Oklahoma, and Louisiana, so it's both the southwest and southern midwest of the United States. Honestly, I think it's fine to keep it as it is, as it only encompasses a small portion of the south. VarangianTheMapper (talk) 22:33, 14 July 2024 (UTC)