Talk:Raymond Bessone

Place of birth

We seem to have no current source for a place of birth in Brixton. Bessone, in his autobiography: Bessone, R. (1976), Raymond – The outrageous autobiography of Teasie-Weasie, London, Wyndham Publications, ISBN 0-352-39757-8, claims that he was born ".. in a second floor room of 61, Wardour Street". This seems to be supported by the entry in the Register of Births for Apr/May/Jun 1911: "Bessone Raimindo, C.P. ... Westminster 1a 413." In fact the first two chapters of his book give a rich account of his childhood in Soho.

Although the family were Catholic, Bessone and his sister were sent to the French Protestant school on Noel Street. At the age of nine he was sent to a Catholic boarding school in South London where discipline was extremely strict, but was eventually brought home by his parents who were concerned for his safety. Shortly ater his the family moved for a while to a large Edwardian house in Meads Row, Lambeth. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:11, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Name

In his autobiography, Bessone claims that in 1953, having set up a chain of successful salons under the name "Raymond", he had become increasingly infuriated by other unknown hairdressers cashing-in on the name. He was advised by his laywers, however, that he had no legal defence, since anyone could claim to have the first name "Raymond". He had resisted changing his name in case he offended his parents, but by 1953, since his parents had both died, he changed his name, by deed poll, to Peter Carlo Bessone Raymond. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:55, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

File:Raymond book cover.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

An image used in this article, File:Raymond book cover.jpg, has been nominated for speedy deletion at Wikimedia Commons for the following reason: Other speedy deletions What should I do? Don't panic; deletions can take a little longer at Commons than they do on Wikipedia. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion (although please review Commons guidelines before doing so). The best way to contest this form of deletion is by posting on the image talk page. If the image is non-free then you may need to upload it to Wikipedia (Commons does not allow fair use) If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale then it cannot be uploaded or used. If the image has already been deleted you may want to try Commons Undeletion Request To take part in any discussion, or to review a more detailed deletion rationale please visit the relevant image page (File:Raymond book cover.jpg) This is Bot placed notification, another user has nominated/tagged the image --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 03:04, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

Same image now loaded to Wikipedia under fair use policy. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:39, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Marilyn Monroe seduction

There is a whole body of literature written by men claiming to have seduced Marilyn Monroe in the unlikeliest of circumsyances, it can hardly be Original Research to discount the most ridiculous. Surely the adding of reported but scurrilous gossip added to the Wikipedia entries of the living are what can give wikipedia a bad reputation. Unless a rumour becomes a phonomenon in itself is it worth of inclusion. This notable person's contribution was to hairdressing and not who he slept with ! A paragraph on this matter larger than anyother part of the entry is unecessary. Please let me know where to take this further, and how, if I am not using correct wikipedia procedures. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Victorianaesthete (talk • contribs) 11:35, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

I'm sure you are perfectly justified in your suspicions. If you read the book you'll see there is certain bragging tone that pervades many parts. It's just a little hard to prove either way? Might I suggest that this claim is retained, even if as a footnote. But it's not BLP - with both parties long since deceased. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:29, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

But an page on a person is based on a contribution to society and culture = notability, which is undeniable in this case. An insistence of this paragraph surely makes the entry a page on an autobiographical book ? Victorian Aesthete (talk) 12:41, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

I quite agree that a seduction of Marilyn Monroe does not really constitute "a contribution to society and culture", although in some ways it does seem notable in itself. Bessone himself certainly thought so. If what you say is true, then maybe we need a new categeory of Category:Men Who Claim To Have Slept With Marilyn Monroe?! I also agree that an article should never be a regurgitation of any book, even an autobiography. But I am not insisting on anything. I am merely suggesting that the claim, which should be clearly flagged as such, deserves at least to be kept as a smaller entry - perhaps a single sentence and/or a footnote. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:00, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

LOL, well you seem to insist by continuing to suggest. We'd have to have a poll to reach concensus, but to me it remains trivia. Good luck with the Category:Men Who Claim To Have Slept With Marilyn Monroe?! page !86.162.217.83 (talk) 14:14, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Well, a "whole body of literature" might require support from a new category or two! Or maybe it's just a specialist literary genre? I'll try and suggest a new sentence which we can debate here, if you'd prefer. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:38, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

There is nothing contentious about this bit, it's basic biography: "Shortly after the war, Bessone was commissioned to mount a number of huge hairdressing shows in New York. He took no models with him from England, however, and had to recruit them in New York, at the premises of a leading model agency. He claims in his autobiography that, at the model audition, his eye was caught by a beautiful girl who was sat on her own quietly knitting. The agency tried to dissuade him from selecting the model, describing her as "the dumbest broad on our books". Much later Bessone had almost forgotten about the model until he saw a nude photograph of her on a friend's calendar, and discovered that her name was Norma Jean Mortenson."

And I'd propose to add a footnote saying:"In his autobiography Bessone also claims that, after taking the girl to dinner at the "El Morocco Club", and then for a drive in Central Park, he successfully seduced her." Martinevans123 (talk) 10:40, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

So, any objections? Any other suggestions? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:14, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

OBE?

Seriously? A hairdresser received an OBE? Is it me or does this seem just terribly strange? Newjerseyliz (talk) 21:30, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Notably strange, I'd say. Especially as it was 1982 and not 1952. But I doubt that BFI have got it wrong. I think the current content in that section suggests why, at least in part, this may have been an honour bestowed on compassionate grounds. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:41, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Perfectly believable. By the 1980s the OBE was a pretty run of the mill honour given to all sorts of people who had achieved success in the world but not been recognised in other ways. It is also often given to British 'ordinary people' such as crossing wardens and dinner ladies who somebody has decided to nominate. --Ef80 (talk) 21:39, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

It's the MBE that is usually given to crossing wardens and dinnerladies, but Bessone was famous and notable enough to be awarded the OBE, and I suspect it wouldn't have been that unusual even in the early 80s – according to the OBE article there are 100,000 living recipients worldwide. Dave.Dunford (talk) 22:10, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

Yes, give him his due. Thanks to Raymond, some of those dinnerladies had great hair. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:25, 30 April 2018 (UTC)