Talk:Rangpur, Bangladesh/Archive 1
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| Archive 1 |
old comments from 2008
Rangpur is a land of many renowned reformers like Rokeya Begum (widely knowned as Begum Rokeys) - the radical leader of women liberation. She was born at Payrabond village - 10 km away from Rangpur Town. At present some ruined structure of her father's building there and Govt. established a memorial there to honor her memory.
Rangpur has a great history of breavery in 1971. Local people along with the tribals (shaotal, munda, orao etc) attacked Rangpur Cantonment with local weapons (like bow/arrow, bamboo sticks, light .22 bore rifle etc) to attack Pakistani Army. The Army opened fire and many martyres shot dead. In memory of them, Local Sculpterist Anik Reza made a Sculpture named "Arjan" at Modern Moore financed by the Govt. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.68.201.106 (talk) 03:33, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
Recent revert
I noticed a very large piece of material was copy pasted from Rangpur District, followed by a large insertion of unsourced material. This article is about the city, not the district. As I could no longer see what relates to what, and no sources were provided, I reverted it entirely. --Muhandes (talk) 22:21, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
Importance Scale
I have reviewed the importance scale of this article and rated as Top since it is the capital city of Rangpur Division. Feel free to post your valuable suggestion. --Kmzayeem (talk) 16:24, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
Requested move
- The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the move request was: Not moved. This is a misplaced request. The target page, Rangpur, contains the longstanding history of the disambiguation page for "Rangpur". The disambiguation topics resided there until being changed in October to a redirect by User:Samudrakula (diff). Meanwhile, the disambig topics were cut and paste moved to the current location of Rangpur (disambiguation) (diff), which is something that should never usually happen. To rectify this situation, I am therefore restoring the disambiguation page at Rangpur, redirecting Rangpur (disambiguation) there, and closing this request as no move.
Note: This closure does not mean that I have any opinion on whether the city Rangpur actually is a primary topic for this. So if you believe that the city is the primary topic, then you should open a new explicit multi-move request, including the move from Rangpur to Rangpur (disambiguation). Thanks. (non-admin closure) — Amakuru (talk) 13:23, 16 December 2013 (UTC)
Rangpur City → Rangpur – The official name of the city is simply ″Rangpur″[1]. Samudrakula (talk) 21:24, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 13:21, 28 July 2018 (UTC)
Primary topic for Rangpur
An editor returned from a four-month break and then boldly made the city Rangpur, Bangladesh the primary topic for Rangpur. WP:RM#CM says that a move is potentially controversial if there has been any past debate about the best title for the page, and in this case there has – see § Requested move from December 2013. WP:Primary topic says a topic is primary for a term with respect to usage if it is highly likely—much more likely than any other single topic, and more likely than all the other topics combined—to be the topic sought when a reader searches for that term.
My check of page views shows that both Rangpur, India and Rangpur (fruit) get a significant number of views. Pehaps the city Rangpur, Bangladesh is primary topic within Bangladesh, but Wikipedia needs to take a worldwide view when deciding on primary topics. For these reasons, I am reverting this move. If you disagree with my assessment, please start a formal move discussion by following the instructions at WP:RM. Thanks, wbm1058 (talk) 13:09, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
Requested move 1 October 2019
- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: No consensus. (non-admin closure) Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:19, 18 October 2019 (UTC)
– per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC and WP:BDPLACE. The city Rangpur in Bangladesh is a major metropolis and while other articles in the disambiguation page are either small towns or villages or less-known archeological sites while the fruit Rangpur itself is also named after the city. According to Google news as well, Rangpur seems to be the primary topic for this title by far, [2]. I, therefore, propose this page to be renamed to Rangpur. Za-ari-masen (talk) 08:15, 1 October 2019 (UTC) --Relisting. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 11:09, 10 October 2019 (UTC)
- Support: Per nom. -- Arman (Talk) 08:49, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
- Why would the city be primary over the district or the division? They all receive similar traffic. —Xezbeth (talk) 14:53, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
- @Xezbeth - In Bangladesh, in almost all cases, both Districts and Divisions are named after the largest urban settlement in the designated region. As such the urban settlement (i.e. the city/town) is the primary topic. This convention has been followed in English Wikipedia consistently. For example: Dhaka, Dhaka District, Dhaka Division. - Arman (Talk) 06:47, 2 October 2019 (UTC)
- supportper nomination. Kayser Ahmad (talk) 09:52, 2 October 2019 (UTC)
- Support per nom. This major city is clearly primary over the territorial divisions named after it (which are also in Bangladesh, incidentally, so the current disambiguator is actually no disambiguator at all). -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:15, 2 October 2019 (UTC)
- Oppose. I'm in agreement with Wbm1058's opinion here. There's no primary topic with respect to usage: Rangpur, India and Rangpur (fruit) each receive comparable pageviews to the city [3]. There's no primary topic with respect to long-term significance either: I don't see a reason why a city should be seen as encyclopedically more significant than an archaeological site or a type of fruit. As for the arguments in the nomination: etymological considerations are not relevant here, and news sources will by necessity be skewed towards contemporary cities (as the loci of current events). – Uanfala (talk) 13:42, 2 October 2019 (UTC)
Weak opposeNeutral largely per Uanfala, also noting that even if the topics like Rangpur Riders, Rangpur District and Rangpur Division are viewed as sub topic per WP:DABCONCEPT the Indian (which has no indication of being named after this one and is a lot older) one and fruit still gets a comparable number of views[[4]] given that the sub topics of the Bangladesh one would presumably be searched for by their full names. Crouch, Swale (talk) 14:10, 2 October 2019 (UTC)
- @Uanfala: and @Crouch, Swale:, I brought the issue of etymology of the fruit (which is also mostly grown in this region) to point out that it could be considered a subtopic of the Rangpur city in Bangladesh. Also, even if results from news sources skew towards modern cities, doesn't it mean that the city is the most sought after topic by the readers among all the pages in the disambiguation? In any case, a search in Google books too brings similar result which further asserts Rangpur, Bangladesh's position as the primary topic, [5]. In addition, I have also checked pages that link to "Rangpur, Bangladesh" which shows 247 results while for "Rangpur, India" it's 63. And I do believe we cannot really base our argument to decide the primary topic on page views alone since the misclicks are also counted in the traffic stats and there is no way to differentiate them. Thanks. Za-ari-masen (talk) 16:32, 2 October 2019 (UTC)
- I don't think the fruit can be considered a sub topic in the same way as sports teams and administrative divisions (I think the fruit is more like the comparison between Boston/Boston, Lincolnshire) but I'd note that the other places only have a few articles on other WPs while this one has 34 and is also a level 5 vital article, changing to neutral. Crouch, Swale (talk) 16:51, 2 October 2019 (UTC)
- Google books results do indeed appear to be overwhelmingly about the city/district, but I'm unwilling to take that into account to the exclusion of other factors, especially the pageviews. (And when we have pageviews data for wikipedia, we don't really need roundabout ways of inferring popularity via google news hits). So the pageviews show a daily average of 107 views since the start of the year for the city [6], 102 for the place in India [7] and 88 for the fruit. [8]. Now, it is true that pageviews are not really what we're after: the problem is not in misclicks (their effect is negligible and there's no reason to suppose they should be biased against a primary topic), but in the fact that they show total views for an article whereas what we're interested in is which articles are sought by readers who search for a given string. We use the pageviews as a proxy measure, but it's possible that the reality might be different. The only easy way to find out what proportion of readers go for which article is to conduct an experiment: pipe the links on the dab page to go via otherwise obscure redirects, and after a period of time (say, a month) check the pageviews for these exact redirects: they will show you how many readers have clicked on each link. If such an experiment is conducted and it demonstrates that by far most readers go for the city, I'd be happy to support the move. – Uanfala (talk) 10:22, 3 October 2019 (UTC)
- @Uanfala:, the point I was trying to make is the weight carried by the Page view argument simply gets dwarfed by the sheer nature of other evidences which supports Rangpur, Bangladesh as the primary topic by far, i.e. the Google Books results and the number of pages that link to these articles, which only proves the fact that the page view statistics are not providing the accurate picture in this context. I liked your idea about that experiment though I'm not sure how we could successfully execute it or if the relevant WikiProjects would be willing to put that much effort for a single RM discussion. If you really do that, do let me know if I could help. One way we could circumvent the experiment is by taking a look at the number of edits on these articles (which is also a good indicator to determine the most sought after article by the readers). For Rangpur, Bangladesh, the total number of edits is 1,135 (5.2% bot edits) by 334 unique editors while for Rangpur, India, they are 73 (9.6% bot edits) and 43 respectively. The article on Rangpur, Bangladesh was created on 29 June, 2005 and Rangpur, India, on 3 March 2006 and I don't see any history of page protection for Rangpur, India. Again, it's the sheer nature of the evidence that supports the Rangpur, Bangladesh's position as the primary topic that I'm trying to point out (i.e. the vast difference between the numbers of edits and editors here). Za-ari-masen (talk) 16:25, 3 October 2019 (UTC)
- Google books results do indeed appear to be overwhelmingly about the city/district, but I'm unwilling to take that into account to the exclusion of other factors, especially the pageviews. (And when we have pageviews data for wikipedia, we don't really need roundabout ways of inferring popularity via google news hits). So the pageviews show a daily average of 107 views since the start of the year for the city [6], 102 for the place in India [7] and 88 for the fruit. [8]. Now, it is true that pageviews are not really what we're after: the problem is not in misclicks (their effect is negligible and there's no reason to suppose they should be biased against a primary topic), but in the fact that they show total views for an article whereas what we're interested in is which articles are sought by readers who search for a given string. We use the pageviews as a proxy measure, but it's possible that the reality might be different. The only easy way to find out what proportion of readers go for which article is to conduct an experiment: pipe the links on the dab page to go via otherwise obscure redirects, and after a period of time (say, a month) check the pageviews for these exact redirects: they will show you how many readers have clicked on each link. If such an experiment is conducted and it demonstrates that by far most readers go for the city, I'd be happy to support the move. – Uanfala (talk) 10:22, 3 October 2019 (UTC)
- I don't think the fruit can be considered a sub topic in the same way as sports teams and administrative divisions (I think the fruit is more like the comparison between Boston/Boston, Lincolnshire) but I'd note that the other places only have a few articles on other WPs while this one has 34 and is also a level 5 vital article, changing to neutral. Crouch, Swale (talk) 16:51, 2 October 2019 (UTC)
- @Uanfala: and @Crouch, Swale:, I brought the issue of etymology of the fruit (which is also mostly grown in this region) to point out that it could be considered a subtopic of the Rangpur city in Bangladesh. Also, even if results from news sources skew towards modern cities, doesn't it mean that the city is the most sought after topic by the readers among all the pages in the disambiguation? In any case, a search in Google books too brings similar result which further asserts Rangpur, Bangladesh's position as the primary topic, [5]. In addition, I have also checked pages that link to "Rangpur, Bangladesh" which shows 247 results while for "Rangpur, India" it's 63. And I do believe we cannot really base our argument to decide the primary topic on page views alone since the misclicks are also counted in the traffic stats and there is no way to differentiate them. Thanks. Za-ari-masen (talk) 16:32, 2 October 2019 (UTC)
- support--per nomination and I think wikipedia need a primary policy for such similiar cases like "XX" for most viewed n edited article and XX(disambiguation) for enlisting other disambiguated pages !—2A0A:A541:A89D:0:1860:5D93:8477:29 (talk) 10:31, 6 October 2019 (UTC)
- Strong oppose. Quoting WP:PTOPIC: "A topic is primary for a term with respect to usage if it is highly likely—much more likely than any other single topic, and more likely than all the other topics combined—to be the topic sought when a reader searches for that term.". The combined page views for the last 30 days for Rangpur, Bangladesh, Rangpur, Punjab and Rangpur (fruit) are 5,374: 32.8%, 34.3% and 33.0% respectively. There is no PTOPIC; and certainly not the page third-ranked by views!
- The second limb of PTOPIC is: "A topic is primary for a term with respect to long-term significance if it has substantially greater enduring notability and educational value than any other topic associated with that term." IMO only the fruit could pass that test. Narky Blert (talk) 17:16, 11 October 2019 (UTC)
- @Narky Blert:, I would request you to go through the discussion above to understand why the page view stat here is so inaccurate to argue for the first point of PTOPIC. As for the second topic, could you please explain how the fruit possesses greater notability than the city? Za-ari-masen (talk) 09:25, 12 October 2019 (UTC)
- The page view figures for the last 6 months are even more telling. The fruit consistently receives more views than the place in Bangladesh, by a ratio of 4:3. There is absolutely no way that the place is PTOPIC; and the fruit cannot be either. Narky Blert (talk) 09:36, 12 October 2019 (UTC)
- @Narky Blert:, I would request you to go through the discussion above to understand why the page view stat here is so inaccurate to argue for the first point of PTOPIC. As for the second topic, could you please explain how the fruit possesses greater notability than the city? Za-ari-masen (talk) 09:25, 12 October 2019 (UTC)
- Oppose per the information provided by Narky Blert showing that there is no primary topic by views or long-term significance. -- JHunterJ (talk) 15:21, 12 October 2019 (UTC)
- Oppose. With multiple disparate places and the fruit, it isn't even close to a primary topic. Also, stripping the country confers no benefit to any reader. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 05:20, 17 October 2019 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
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