Talk:Rajaraja I/Archive 1

Archive 1

Mother of Rajendra

As per Kalki, Rajendra's mother was not the queen who sat with Rajaraja on the throne (பட்டத்து அரசி Pattathu arasi) and that was some one else.

Panchavanmahadevi

As per Balakumaran, Panchavanmahadevi took some herbs and aborted her child and ensured that she does not get pregnant again.

While these are not "history" per se, I think that we can have a seperate section mentioning such facts also.

This is MY opinion and feedback invitedDoctor Bruno 14:56, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

I don't believe we should take Kalki and Balakumaran's stories as evidence in an article about the historic Rajaraja. With due respect to these authors, their works are fiction without the need to provide any authentic evidence. I have based this article on K.A. Nilakanta Sastri's The Cholas which has been for the past seventy years the authoritative book on the Chola dynasty. This does not mention anything about Rajaraja's wife aborting or his daughter converting to Buddhism.

If we began to use Ponniyin Selvan and Udayar as references, where do we stop? What about Mandakini Devi and Sendan Amudhan, who is supposed to be the real Uththama Chola. What about Nandhini, who assassinated Aditya Karikala?

Parthi 20:07, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Does Balakumaran offer any proof for the supposed abortion by Panchavanmahadevi? if he doesn't then this claim is not a fact but fiction.

We can possible create a section for "Rajaraja Chola in popular fiction" and detail these items. It shouldn't confuse actual history with fiction. - Parthi 23:50, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

There is already such section. I added a remark about Kanthalur in the 'FICTION' SECTION (attributing the author) and it has been edited. What to doDoctor Bruno 14:20, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Great Man?

We have accounts of his army massacring civilians, raping women and slaughtering people

How is he a great man? He is as pathetic as some of the islamic invaders of India

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.121.167.203 (talk) 02:05, 2 February 2007 (UTC).

Of course he is great. There is no proof of your claims that his army was involved in raping women, killing children etc., Please understand that he was conqueror and when he fights war with neighbours there are bounds to be casualities. Please understand all kings during at that time was involved in wars with neighbours. So, as a king, he is bound to protect his boundaries. He was definitely a benevolent king but was a "lion" when enemies try to attack him.

You must be a kannadiga because history shows the rivalry between chalukyas and cholas. Definitely, kannada poets historians will try to potray negative image of the chola dynasty who is the opposing force for chalukyas. We cannot believe those claims outrightly.

Yes the chalukyan as well as gangan kingdoms were known to the chola panegyrists to be the ones that emphasised the wickedness of age of kali, who indulged in all kinds of evil acts and particularly subversion. They are described as a nuisance that need be eliminated through punitive expeditions. Some literaure also refer the use of scorched earth techniques like poisoning the food, water tanks and loading trees with deadly venomous snakes by chalukyas against chola occupationary forces. Several other tactics employed by the loathsome deccan dynasties may be regarded as terror tactics.many inscriptions hint to resort of oppurtunistic,stealth guerilla warfare at nights .The mountain clans of deccan especially hated cholas and pallavas as can be seen from the vituperative references made to them in their inscriptions. If captured alive, they could be given to women and their huge meat skinning knives, their bowels were cut open and they were left in the hot sun waiting for death in sheer pain. The cholan response was to mercilessly decimate all that came upfront man,woman,child,animal. The pallava predecessors of cholas also confirm these acts of the "kingdoms of age of kali". There were many such kingdoms in the vast subcontinent but this one topped them all. The previous evil kalabhra forces are also known to be from deccan kingdoms of AP/KARNATAKA/MAHARASHTRA.Inasmuch as all chola/pallava emperors do agree that their armies wreaked havoc in deccan leaving no traces of any kingdoms and humans, it is not true that they either wilfully or institutionally indulged in exploitation. This is an misinformation spread by deccan writers to malign the ancient dynasties and also spread terror, much the same way the deccan "tamils" of LTTE and the goondas of bajrangdal/BJP are doing nowadays. Thus it is even possible that the local evil deccan dynasties may have indulged in such crimes, staged such crimes and tried to malign cholas/pallavas by using their identity for the same.

Regiments in Tanjore Inscription

A number of regiments are mentioned in the Tanjore inscriptions.

• Perundanattu Anaiyatkal.
• Pandita-Chola-Terinda-villigal.
• Parivarameykappargal.
• Palavagai-Parampadaigalilar.Doctor Bruno 18:18, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Evidence for Udhagai and kalinga war

meghamitra 12:20, 4 May 2007 (UTC) 1. What is the evidence of kalinga war and occupation 2. Malai nadu is udhagai show evidence

Lot of other references as well, which i will tall later. I want to edit out the said portions any objectins

Do not remove before somebody puts inline citations. The evidence is there in KANs work. Praveen 13:49, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Udhagai was found in 18th century by British and before that there are only toda tribes in ooty and sorrounded by badagas , how did he invade udhagai , I feel kan's work is book of untruth's. Naval expedition where is the evidence from kalinga or independent sources.meghamitra 07:47, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

First of all what you feel is irrelevant here. Regarding the neutral source for Rajaraja's Kalinga conquest, see my reference in the end of the line in article (By Vincent Arthur). BTW:Why don't you ask for neutral sources in hundreds of Kannada related articles where only one book from Kamat is used as 'reference'. Praveen 14:29, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

And which are those hundreds of Kannada related articles where only Kamat is used? First of all, there is "Kamat" and then there is "Kamath" - two different authors. And almost all articles which use either or both of these authors also use several other authors as reference. A quick look at DK's user page should suffice. On the other hand, an overwhelming number of tamil articles are lopsided in favour of KAN or worse, tamilnation.org. Not to mention that except for a handful, there are no inline citations for any of the rest. Even for the very tallest of claims! Sarvagnya 20:41, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

It is ridiculous to claim the Prof. KAN book is 'full of untruths'! His books have been in print for well over 70 years and are standard reading in a number of universities. What have you published Meghamitra? - Parthi ^{talk/contribs} 19:58, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Exactly venu , book of 70years old is used to justify outdated theories that are contradicted to new findingsmeghamitra 06:51, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Please articulate the 'new finding'. That will be more constructive than defacing the article. Thanks Parthi ^{talk/contribs} 05:05, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Invasion of Lanka

Anuradhapura became the capital of Sri Lanka as early as the 4th century B.C.E. When Raja Raja Chola's invasion took place in 993 C.E., the city had served as the capital for 1400 years. The Sri Lankan prince Vijayabahu-I ended the Chola occupation in the year 1203C.E. and continued to use Polonnaruva as his capital (just as his Chola predecessors), although he was crowned in Anuradhapura as the king of Sri Lanka.

There were many temples built by the Cholas in Polonnaruva of which the ruins can be seen to this day. A fairly large collection of bronze statues of Hindu deities discovered during excavations are on display at the National Museum, Colombo, as well as at the Archaeological Museum of Polonnaruva.

Rohana is one of the three ancient regional divisions of Sri Lanka. Its capital was Maagama, near present day Tissamaharama. In the early part of the second millennium C.E. the hill country of Sri Lanka was only sparsely populated. - - 124.43.197.87 02:28, 17 August 2007 (UTC).

The ponnalaruwa inscription of vijayabahu states that he had to fight many kings enroute to the place, but does not mention neither their names northe results. As such we know from inscriptions of Raja RajaII , KULOTHUNGAII and III, and Rajadhiraja cholaII, that cholas continued to dominate srilanka. The lankan chroniclers may have pre-dated this grant. Also we know from later literature that sinhala kingdom could establish itself again only in mid 14th century.There are also inscriptions of athirajendra chola that have been found in ponnalaruwa.kulothunga says in his tirukkalukunram inscription that he invaded srilanka several times.

Arul mozhi or Arun mozhi

Which among this is RajaRajaCholan I-The Great's birht name?

(talkArun1paladin (talk) 13:04, 5 January 2008 (UTC))

Rajaraja vs Raja Raja

The article calls him both Rajaraja and Raja Raja interchangeably. Shouldn't this be made more consistant (and the article named accordingly)? Which is the more standard usage? o (talk) 13:53, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

A Note on special forces called velaikkaras

Can this section be removed? If this is about a historic King then this section will be unverifiable Benjaminins (talk) 06:56, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I agree that it should be removed. The whole thing is off-topic, unsourced and WP:POV. Apparition^{11 Complaints}/Mistakes 15:02, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Rajaraja Chola's Statue

The Wikipedia article Chola Dynasty has an image of Rajaraja Chola's statue. Hence it would be ironical to say that no known image / picture / statue of Rajaraja Chola exists. Removing this statement Mr.Falcon (talk) 18:43, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

Name problem

There is edit war taking place in this article for the name of raja raja cholan. Some people have mentioned his name has 'Arunmozhi varman' and placed a reference to a newspaper article. Other's are trying to change the name as 'Arunmozhi Varman'. One important thing is that Raja raja chola had the title 'Devan' that everyone knows. For the both parties who are in the edit war 'Devan' was a title used by the later cholas to denote themselves as 'god like rulers'. It does not refer to any caste names. In all the Tamil nigandu(dictionary) of the same period there is no evidence that the title refers to any caste. In Tamil literature also there is no evidence. So don't fight.117.193.66.149 (talk) 19:49, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Almost all stone inscriptions belonging to Raja Rajan period mentions his name as Arunmozhi Thevar. The inscriptions found in Sri Karumbur village near Kaveripakkam specifically mentions Raja Rajan's name as Raja Kesari Varman Raja Raja Thevar. Thevar is not a caste. It is a honorary title earlier used by Chola and Pandiya kings and later by a group of castes who came to be known by the same name. Someone is making derogatory comments about Thevars. Please stop.

Some inscriptions mention Arulmozhi varman-any details on which one Arun or Arul is correct? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.241.89.115 (talk) 08:06, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

Devar is the title used by cholans

Devar is the title used by cholans. The cholans never used thevar. Please stop putting wrong information. There is no evidence for cholans having thevar as title. Please provide snap shots of the proof. Also Thevar also know as Kallars have stealing as their profession.

There is no distinction between THEVAR and DEVAR in Tamil. Both are written as தேவர் in Tamil.Arivu jevi (talk) 07:50, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mukkulathor — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.105.174.210 (talk) 19:36, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

For what the IP has constantly been changing, the source (http://www.hindu.com/fr/2009/11/27/stories/2009112751290700.htm) clearly uses Thevar, and therefore, so should we. This just seems to be WP:OR and not WP:NPOV unless sources can be provided. Apparition^{11 Complaints}/Mistakes 11:16, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Please add supportive citations to prove that the word Devar or Thevar used in his name is in anyway associated with a particular caste. As far as i see the Cholans used the word Devar as a title and not as a particular caste. Pearll's Sun^TALK 04:49, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

The words Devar and Thevar are used interchangeably. In two instances the name of the Emperor has been mentioned as Arunmozhi Thevar and Raja Kesari Varman Raja Raja Devar Arivu jevi (talk) 09:58, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

Hi, i wish more users take part in this discussion as we can have more proofs, as i don't see even a single worthful result from a neutral source that confirms that his name was Arunmozhi Thevar infact the word "Thevar" is missing from any given source and also pulls no relevant detail in Google, we need atleast 2 or 3 such results to have it on the article, else we may have to rename it to either "Devar", which is in fact a Title and not a caste or leave it just leave it as "Varman" as wikipedia is not the pace for Original Research. Pearll's Sun^TALK 05:04, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

References

cholans had title thevar

Thevar is a caste in India. Raja raja chola had title thevar. His real name is Arunmozhi varman.

http://books.google.com/books?id=T5J6GKvGbmMC&pg=PA44&dq=raja+raja+cholan&hl=en#v=onepage&q=apogee%20&f=false

Encyclopedia of architectural and engineering feats By Donald Langmead, Christine GarnautTake our survey — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.105.174.210 (talk) 01:48, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

== raja raja cholan was called arunmozhi DEVAR not arunmozhi VARMAN

==

http://books.google.com/books?id=fxeK0JLjnsgC&pg=PA159&dq=arun+mozhi+varman+cholan&hl=en#v=onepage&q=arul%20mozhi%20varman&f=false

Caste, Catholic Christianity, and the language of conversion: social change ... By S. Jeyaseela Stephen page 159 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.105.174.210 (talk) 19:06, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

File:Rajaraja coin.png Nominated for speedy Deletion

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RAJA RAJA CHOLAN and RAJ RAJA CHOLA

referred to as CHOLAN in south india. Chola in the west.

Please include information.... CHOLAN ....................CHOLAN

TAKE A LOOK AT ANOTHER WIKIPEDIA LINK,WHICH SAYS CHOLAN

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajaraja_Cholan

Choodamani Buddha Vikaram

Why not we mention about the Chudamani Buddha vikaram, Nagappatinnam Doctor Bruno 19:55, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Dorcto Bruno. The article mentions the Chudamani Vihara, but if you want to add more information, please add to the article. I couldn't find a lot on the Vihara. I don't think it exists anymore.

Thanks for your Kudos in my Talk page as well.

Venu62 22:07, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Devar is the title used by Cholans,also use by all Indian kings those days

These days Everyone started using Devar/Thevar name with their names,Mostly people from Kallar Caste(Kallar is a Tamil language word meaning "thief") https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kallar_(caste)

All community people are trying to own "Devar/Thevar" name as their caste name.But Indian government has proper caste list identified and recorded by British.

Devar means divine/award name and THEVAR is not caste.Devar community is not listed in India/Tamilnadu Government Caste list

Thevar is not a caste in tamilnadu.its a award or honoring the king

Common Tamil people do not use "Devar/Thevar",No one have rights or proof that Devar/Thevar is a Caste.its seems that most of the wikipedia content used to display peoples own interest instead of history.

Name of emperor

The name of Raja Raja should be ArulMozhi Varman. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tan Meifen (talk • contribs) 13:24, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

RAJARAJA does not belongs to any caste these days , 119.74.226.142 (talk) 02:06, 12 April 2017 (UTC)

Varalaaru and Raasa Manickanar

Are "Varalaaru" and "Raasa Manickanar" reliable sources? The former is advertised as a "web magazine".--Cpt.a.haddock (talk) (please ping when replying) 22:09, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

Reference removal

@Magentic Manifestations: Hi. Thanks for the reference sanitisation. But there appears to have been a lot of collateral damage as well. You've remove the URLs from many citations. You've deleted citations by Vidya Dehejia, KANS, etc. You've merged Epigraphia Indica citations for different pages into a single-page reference. You've removed citation needed tags, for example, from the name of one of the daughters and changed the provided spelling. There is also confusion as to whether Thiripuvānamādēviyār was his wife (has citations) or mother (had citation) :| I've reverted these edits. Please re-apply them in a non-destructive manner and break your changes into multiple edits with descriptive edit summaries that inform other editors as to the changes you have made. Thank you.--Cpt.a.haddock (talk) (please ping when replying) 07:35, 8 July 2017 (UTC)

I am reverting certain edits. The name of the daughter is spelled differently in two places(infobox and body), had taken the spelling given in the source. The citation mentions the name. Had removed sources where it is repetitive or where there is already a source in place.Magentic Manifestations (talk) 07:46, 8 July 2017 (UTC)

@Magentic Manifestations: You'd actually spelt the daughter's name differently earlier. You're still removing URLs from citations; please revert this. There is also nothing wrong with having multiple sources. You're still removing Vidya Dehejia without an explanation. Please revert this as well. In fact, it will be best to first only re-format citations in a non-destructive manner and then perform separate edits for any changes that you make. Thank you.--Cpt.a.haddock (talk) (please ping when replying) 08:11, 8 July 2017 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

• Raja Raja chola.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 13:36, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

Title

All the references cited in the article use spell the name as "Rajaraja", without space. Also, the refs don't suggest that "Chola" wasn't a surname -- dynastic names are sometimes appended to the kings' names to distinguish them from their namesakes from other dynasties. That's not the case with Rajaraja - the sources cited in the article simply call him "Rajaraja". Unless someone has an objection, this article should be moved to Rajaraja I. Same goes for Rajaraja Chola II, which should be moved to Rajaraja II. utcursch | talk 00:47, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

Bump. Any objections? utcursch | talk 20:29, 30 April 2019 (UTC)

Moved. utcursch | talk 17:25, 5 May 2019 (UTC)

Lhjk — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7F:244:A900:68CD:4EFD:C5E4:ABD (talk) 12:35, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 July 2020

Ggrgfgdg (talk) 19:56, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

'Rajaraja I,'(Tamil:ராசா ராசா சோழன்) born

See WP:INDICSCRIPT – Thjarkur (talk) 20:00, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 January 2022

2409:4072:621B:B7C:0:0:237C:F0B1 (talk) 05:28, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 January 2022 (2)

real name: arulmozhi thevar Born name: arulmozhi thevar Real name: arulmozhi thevar Name: arulmozhi thevar 2409:4072:621B:B7C:0:0:237C:F0B1 (talk) 05:34, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 January 2022

the heading is not Rajaraja cholan but Raja Raja Cholen 183.82.25.132 (talk) 13:32, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:39, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

Vandalism

I have added more images and information to the article. I removed information that was irrelevant to the article as pointed out by other editors. I don't see how this is vandilism — Preceding unsigned comment added by Writer2433986 (talk • contribs) 02:10, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 October 2022

The article of raja raja chola religion is edited to shaivism by removing hinduism . Please rewrite it 103.178.205.153 (talk) 06:00, 8 October 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 12:28, 8 October 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 October 2022

In inscriptions, it is found that Raja Raja-1 was found to be Arunmozhi Varman and Arumozhi Varman. And Arulmozhi Varman is incorrect Athish Shubhan (talk) 13:23, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. MadGuy7023 (talk) 13:32, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 October 2022

Raja raja 1 religion is Shaivism 2401:4900:483D:9840:0:0:833:41E9 (talk) 03:19, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. This seems to be a controversial change (see discussions here and here), and the discussion should ideally reach a conclusion before any edit requests are made. Aidan9382 _(talk) 07:44, 12 October 2022 (UTC)