Talk:Rai dynasty

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Rai dynasty is currently a World history good article nominee. Nominated by TrangaBellam (talk) at 14:22, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

An editor has placed this article on hold to allow improvements to be made to satisfy the good article criteria. Recommendations have been left on the review page, and editors have seven days to address these issues. Improvements made in this period will influence the reviewer's decision whether or not to list the article as a good article.

Short description: Dynasty based in Sindh, present-day Pakistan

Rai dynasty was nominated as a History good article, but it did not meet the good article criteria at the time (August 5, 2024, reviewed version). There are suggestions on the review page for improving the article. If you can improve it, please do; it may then be renominated.

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Untitled

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Questions

I would like to suggest some copy-editing to improve this article's flow. I speak English as a first language and I would be happy to do it, or to help. First though, I would like to ask some questions. Much foreknowledge is assumed. Truly global means people around the world should be able to understand it.

1)There is no mention of place or time anywhere; I had to look up Sindh to find out what part of the world this is about, and which century. It is now in Pakistan, correct? Was Sindh in India during the Rai Dynasty?

2)What is meant by "He called his minister to see the letters"?

3)What is a "munshi"?

Thanks in advance for helping me to understand. Shyland 12:42, 6 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Shyland, I have updated the article on the basis of Chach Nama and added links also. The point wise reply is as under: 1)Before 1947, India included Pakistan. 2)Minister had to look after correspondence of the state. It has been updated. 3)Munshi means assistant or book-keeper. Hope now you like the format. Thanks burdak 16:39, 8 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Burdak, you have enlightened me :). I did a little copy-edit ...but there is something wrong with the references / footnotes. A lot of them are numbered [1]. Some bot tried (unsuccessfully) to fix it; I tried again but I guess I don't know how. Can you take another look? Thanks, --Shyland 10:47, 23 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

2 questions

I'd like to add 2 questions regarding this topic. 71.126.248.168 (talk) 19:34, 17 November 2007 (UTC)McS 1) Geographical and polictal boundaries: The kingdoms of Rai, Chach etc had geographical boundaries that at times included neighboring states. Most of punjab was controlled by them. Does any one have details on how it maps on current day maps and at what time[reply]

2) The defination of buddhism is in question here, As it wasnt a religion and rituals were different and often to me seems mixed with the local tribal religion etc. How would i go about adding that? To what extent was it a buddhist kingdom to what extent was it a syncretic beleif

WP:INDIA Banner/Rajasthan workgroup Addition

Note: {{WP India}} Project Banner with Rajasthan workgroup parameters was added to this article talk page because the article falls under Category:Rajasthan or its subcategories. Should you feel this addition is inappropriate , please undo my changes and update/remove the relavent categories to the article -- TinuCherian ^{(Wanna Talk?)} - 08:27, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The dynasty did not extend into Rajasthan but into Gujarat till Surat (see lede). So changed project banner to Gujarat.Jethwarp (talk) 04:02, 27 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Redirected article Rani Suhanadi kindly be restored

Seniors , its requested , article Rani Suhanadi which is redirected to this article kindly be restored. As Rani Suhanadi was a wife of Rai king . --Jogi don (talk) 07:33, 5 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Jogi don, do you have anything to add to the current page? TrangaBellam (talk) 09:38, 8 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Coins

@पाटलिपुत्र:, the coin and the caption, added by you, is very interesting. But, we need some additional context. A reader who is hearing of this dynasty (and Sindh) for the first time will fail to understand the relevance of the coinage of a ruler, who is not mentioned anywhere in the article!

Assuming Ranaditya Satya was ruling Sind (which parts?) c. late fifth century, what do you make of this dynasty? My firm belief — bolstered by Asif's scholarship on Chachnama — has always been that the Rai dynasty was the fertile imagination of `Ali Kufi interspersed within contemporary legends etc. but there is no consensus among scholars to such effect. TrangaBellam (talk) 09:12, 19 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @TrangaBellam:! I don't know much about this dynasty really. Feel free to remove the coin image if unnecessary. It does seem there is a contradiction between this coinage (rather plentiful actually in the region) and the (supposed?) existence of a parallel Rai dynasty... but maybe you have access to sources that could elucidate this matter? Best. पाटलिपुत्र Pataliputra (talk) 10:23, 19 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I feel that the coin image is a decent addition - see the newly drafted Overview section where I have tried to contextualize it. More later. TrangaBellam (talk) 10:51, 19 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@पाटलिपुत्र: Do you have a copy of this book which claims to have come across evidence of coinage from this dynasty for the first time? TrangaBellam (talk) 12:07, 19 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @TrangaBellam:!No, unfortunately, no copy of that book, but there is an interesting summary here [1], and a few page extracts:[2][3][4] Quite a lot on numismatic sites, but nothing on CNG. पाटलिपुत्र Pataliputra (talk) 13:37, 19 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@पाटलिपुत्र: Thanks! File:Śri Harsharuka of Sindh.jpg needs to go into the article, preferably as part of a gallery containing coins of Shahi Rasra(…), Jayataka, and Bharharsha. But I was unable to source images of such coins. TrangaBellam (talk) 15:08, 19 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Added File:Śrī Bharharsha of Sindh.jpg. TrangaBellam (talk) 15:37, 19 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@TrangaBellam: Cool. In the description of this coin

, CNG attributes Ranadityasatya to the Rai Dynasty [5], apparently sourced from "Fishman&Todd pp. 62-3 and fig. 4.10".पाटलिपुत्र Pataliputra (talk) 15:52, 19 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I am aware - Ctrl + F "Ranaditya might have been the first Rai ruler, Diwaji" in the article. TrangaBellam (talk) 15:55, 19 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@TrangaBellam: I think User:Rani nurmai has the F&T book, per Talk:Ranaditya Satya, but he is on Wikipedia on and off, and might be a little bit tough to contact.... पाटलिपुत्र Pataliputra (talk) 18:08, 19 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, I left a note at their t/p. If you know of their email, I will appreciate a pointer! TrangaBellam (talk) 18:29, 19 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I have purchased a copy. TrangaBellam (talk) 15:10, 28 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

To Do

Sfn the sources and send to GAR. TrangaBellam (talk) 15:15, 28 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Rai Sahasi II.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 16:09, 24 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Caste-derived-POV pushing

David Ludden, notwithstanding his mastery of the agrarian history of colonial India, etc., has no expertise on topics of early medieval India; to compound things, he does not even spend an entire line on our subject in the essay! I do not know how to parse "Jat Buddhist" either which, according to Google Books, has not been used by any other author before. Consequently, the source is insufficient to tag the Rais as "Jat"; as I note in the body, their origins [ethnicity] remains unknown. TrangaBellam (talk) 16:47, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Michel Boivin notes the Rais to be Buddhists. TrangaBellam (talk) 08:11, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@TrangaBellam, it will be perhaps best to just exclude the caste out of the lead completely. PadFoot (talk) 13:42, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]