Talk:RAF Lossiemouth

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RAF Lossiemouth has been listed as one of the Warfare good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
September 10, 2017	WikiProject A-class review	Not approved
January 11, 2018	Good article nominee	Listed

Current status: Good article

Aviation: Airports

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Military history: Aviation / British / European / World War II / Cold War

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Scotland Low‑importance

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Map would be helpful

A map would be very helpful for this article. Especially one showing contextual position in the UK and the location of the (public-information, not govmt. secret) restricted flight areas in the Murray Firth, etc. I've added a {reqmap} tag. N2e (talk) 15:07, 26 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Map needed

It is requested that a map or maps be included in this article to improve its quality.
Wikipedians in Scotland may be able to help!

New material needs expansion

What is a "QRA force"? What does "which was stood up at Leuchars in March 2011" mean? What is an "AC Squadron"? Deipnosophista (talk) 11:15, 3 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

CE

Did a quick ce, tidied a few typos, converted units of measurement changed to isbn-13s. Left a couple of <> for doubtful items. Rv as desired.Keith-264 (talk) 13:02, 30 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Demolished Hangars

I've removed the following statement from the facilities section as it was identified as being unreferenced in the A-class review "Hangar K20, which was located beside the southern boundary of the airfield, was demolished in 2010. One L-type at the north of the airfield and a Bellman type (hangar 5) were demolished in the 2000s."

When comparing the WW2 airfield map in Jim Hughes book on Lossiemouth with current satellite images its evident that above is the case. However I can't find any published sources to use as references. Thx811 (talk) 18:54, 7 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Station Commanders

The station commanders list is incomplete and therefore been removed from the article as recommended in the GA review. I've left the list here so that in can be added to and hopefully moved back to the article when complete. Thx811 (talk) 18:10, 6 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

A partial list of Lossiemouth station commanders.^[1]

Group Captain Percy E Maitland AFC MVO, (1939)^[2]
Group Captain J F Hobler (1944–1945)
Captain F. M. A. Torrens-Spence DSO, DSC, AFC, RN (1958)^[3]
Captain Douglas G Brown (1965 – 13 September 1967)^[4]
Captain Eric 'Winkle' Brown CBE, DSC, AFC, Hon FRAeS, RN (13 September 1967 – March 1970)^[4]^[5]
Group Captain M M J Robinson (29 September 1972 – 8 October 1974)
Group Captain Raymond J Offord (8 October 1974 – July 1975)
Group Captain J R Walker (July 1975 – 13 February 1976)
Group Captain R I Stuart-Paul (13 February 1976 – 1978)
Group Captain D E Caldwell (1978 – 8 August 1980)
Group Captain R A F Wilson (8 August 1980 – 8 October 1982)
Group Captain P D Oulton (8 October 1982 – 30 November 1984)
Group Captain K B Latton (30 November 1984 – 1986)
Group Captain B E A Pegnall (1988–1990)
Group Captain J A F Ford
Group Captain Graham A Miller
Group Captain Alan T Hudson
Group Captain Chris M Nickols CB CBE, February (2000–2003)
Group Captain Stephen J Hillier KCB CBE DFC (2003–2004)
Group Captain Russ J Torbet CBE (2004 – 8 December 2005)
Group Captain M L Roberts MBE MA MBA RAF (8 December 2005 – October 2007)
Group Captain Al Monkman DFC ADC MA BA RAF (October 2007 – 5 October 2009)^[6]
Group Captain Andy C Hine OBE MA RAF (5 October 2009 – 24 November 2011)^[7]
Group Captain Ian Gale MBE MA RAF (24 November 2011 – 8 November 2013)^[8]
Group Captain Mark W J Chappell ADC RAF (8 November 2013 – 27 November 2015)^[8]
Group Captain Paul A Godfrey OBE, MA, RAF (November 2015 – 29 September 2017)^[9]
Group Captain Jim Walls (29 September 2017 – present)^[10]

References

^ "RAF Station Commanders – Scotland, North-East England and Northern Ireland". RAF Air of Authority Organisation. M B Barrass. 16 October 2015. Retrieved 21 February 2016.
^ Hughes 1993, p. 4-6.
^ "Training the Naval Fighter Pilot". Flight (August 1958). Retrieved 9 August 2016.
^ ^a ^b "New Commander of R.N.A.S Lossiemouth". The Glasgow Herald. 13 September 1967. Retrieved 23 April 2017.
^ "Captain Eric 'Winkle' Brown – obituary". The Telegraph. Telegraph Media Group. 16 February 2016. Retrieved 9 August 2016. {{cite web}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |dead-url= (help)
^ "New Station Commander at RAF Lossiemouth". RAF Lossiemouth. 6 October 2009. Archived from the original on 28 June 2010. Retrieved 21 February 2016. {{cite web}}: Unknown parameter |dead-url= ignored (|url-status= suggested) (help)
^ "Change of Command at RAF Lossiemouth". RAF Lossiemouth. 24 November 2011. Archived from the original on 1 March 2016. Retrieved 21 February 2016. {{cite web}}: Unknown parameter |dead-url= ignored (|url-status= suggested) (help)
^ ^a ^b "New beginnings for RAF Lossiemouth". Royal Air Force. 7 November 2013. Archived from the original on 22 December 2015. Retrieved 21 February 2016. {{cite web}}: Unknown parameter |dead-url= ignored (|url-status= suggested) (help)
^ "New Beginnings for RAF Lossiemouth". Royal Air Force. 27 November 2015. Archived from the original on 1 March 2016. Retrieved 21 February 2016. {{cite web}}: Unknown parameter |dead-url= ignored (|url-status= suggested) (help)
^ Beattie, Kieran (30 September 2017). "New RAF Lossiemouth station commander says role is "immense privilege"". Press and Journal. Aberdeen Journals. Retrieved 1 October 2017. {{cite news}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |dead-url= (help)

Incident section

Hi @MilborneOne: Noticed that you removed the whole incident section on the basis that incidents listed did not happen at Lossiemouth or are not considered notable. The guidelines on the WP:AIRPORT-CONTENT page, albeit presumably aimed at articles on civil airports rather than military, suggest that incidents can be included if they 'they took place at or near the airport' and they either (i) were fatal (ii) the aircraft was lost or seriously damaged (iii) or there was some wider impact as a result of the accident. Taking each of the incidents in turn –

The 1996 Jaguar incident occurred to a aircraft based at Lossiemouth on take-off from Lossiemouth and resulted in the loss of the aircraft. I would suggest that it is notable.
The 1999 Tornado crash occurred elsewhere but resulted in the loss of the crew and aircraft from the station. I would suggest that the loss of personnel based at a military station would be a notable event in the station's history and is worthy of inclusion in an article about the station.
The 1999 Jaguar crash occurred 10 miles from Lossiemouth, which can reasonably be considered as near Lossiemouth. It involved the loss of the aircraft, which was based at the station and the pilot at the time was the station commander, making it notable.
The 1999 fuel tank jettison did occur at Lossiemouth however I would concede that it is not as notable as the loss of an aircraft. However it was an unusual incident which doesn't occur often, possible making it notable.

Thoughts welcome on the above. If the consensus is that the incidents shouldn't be in the RAF Lossiemouth article then perhaps the text should be moved to the articles for the squadrons which the crews and aircraft belonged to, rather than being deleted altogether.

Cheers Thx811 (talk) 22:32, 12 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

User:Thx811 thanks for the comments, Military airfield by the nature of operations have loads of accidents but very rarely are any noteworthy enough to mention:

The 1996 accident to XX143 - agree it was on take off from Lossie but was nothing outstanding to make it noteworthy of a mention.

The 1999 accident to ZD890 - was in Northumberland, no where near Lossiemouth, I would guess the number of aircrew from Lossie that have died in crashes away from the base is high and is not something we would mention. Wikipedia is not a memorial site.

The 1999 accident to XZ381 was seven miles away and not particularly noteworthy (and not the first station commander to be lost in an aircraft accident).

The fuel tank jettison is really not worth a mention.

Squadron articles, some of these squadrons have lost hundreds of aircrew in accidents over the years and it is pretty rare for any of them to be mentioned in squadron articles. MilborneOne (talk) 15:15, 13 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

[1] "RAF Station Commanders – Scotland, North-East England and Northern Ireland". RAF Air of Authority Organisation. M B Barrass. 16 October 2015. Retrieved 21 February 2016.

[FOOTNOTEHughes19934-6-2] Hughes 1993, p. 4-6.

[3] "Training the Naval Fighter Pilot". Flight (August 1958). Retrieved 9 August 2016.

[:7-4] "New Commander of R.N.A.S Lossiemouth". The Glasgow Herald. 13 September 1967. Retrieved 23 April 2017.

[5] "Captain Eric 'Winkle' Brown – obituary". The Telegraph. Telegraph Media Group. 16 February 2016. Retrieved 9 August 2016. {{cite web}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |dead-url= (help)

[6] "New Station Commander at RAF Lossiemouth". RAF Lossiemouth. 6 October 2009. Archived from the original on 28 June 2010. Retrieved 21 February 2016. {{cite web}}: Unknown parameter |dead-url= ignored (|url-status= suggested) (help)

[7] "Change of Command at RAF Lossiemouth". RAF Lossiemouth. 24 November 2011. Archived from the original on 1 March 2016. Retrieved 21 February 2016. {{cite web}}: Unknown parameter |dead-url= ignored (|url-status= suggested) (help)

[:0-8] "New beginnings for RAF Lossiemouth". Royal Air Force. 7 November 2013. Archived from the original on 22 December 2015. Retrieved 21 February 2016. {{cite web}}: Unknown parameter |dead-url= ignored (|url-status= suggested) (help)

[9] "New Beginnings for RAF Lossiemouth". Royal Air Force. 27 November 2015. Archived from the original on 1 March 2016. Retrieved 21 February 2016. {{cite web}}: Unknown parameter |dead-url= ignored (|url-status= suggested) (help)

[10] Beattie, Kieran (30 September 2017). "New RAF Lossiemouth station commander says role is "immense privilege"". Press and Journal. Aberdeen Journals. Retrieved 1 October 2017. {{cite news}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |dead-url= (help)

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