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Talk:Quazi Golam Dastgir

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I ran this through WP:Duplication detector before passing it at AfC. It should be noted that there are a few phrases requiring attention, and a lot of short phrases that are inevitably matched, given the nature of the subject ("was promoted to X rank" type of things). I have just re-run the detector and will try to address the remaining concerns in the next few days. There are perhaps 25 clear lifts that could do with a little work. - Sitush (talk) 10:59, 8 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Sitush. I appreciate your kind assistance with editing this article, and please let me know if I can be of assistance. Also I was wondering if I might be able to give you four pictures that might be added to the article -- the photographs are from a family collection. Much appreciated. Rumman--Rumman1966 (talk) 20:58, 9 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

As far as the images are concerned, you would need to own the copyright or be able to send the permission of the copyright owner to Wikipedia. I've been away for a couple of days and have quite a backlog of stuff here: if you want to have a go at rephrasing the content then please do so. If you click on the link above then you will see a long list of "matched phrases". The ones nearest to the top of the list are those that most desperately need to be reworked so as not to breach copyright. Just use your own words and try not to slavishly follow the layout of the source website. - Sitush (talk) 15:52, 11 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks Sitush. I took a shot at editing some of the matched phrases (starting with the top, as you kindly suggested), although claims of copyright infringement is unlikely since I own www.dastgir.net and wrote that piece as well. Your initial assessment is correct -- some of the phrases are inevitably matched given the nature of the subject, and very difficult to rephrase without changing the substance entirely. The images are family pictures -- two from the General's days in uniform and four from each of his terms as Ambassador. I am not sure whether there is a copyright issue with the pictures -- they are from family photo albums chronicling six or seven decades. Some appear in dastgir.net (although I could take them down there, if you suggest) and some in my Facebook page. I will await further instructions from you on how to improve the article. Thanks.Rumman1966 (talk) 20:04, 14 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
This is getting quite messy. On the one hand, there is a process whereby you could effectively renege your copyright at dastgir.net and convert to a GFDL/CC-BY-SA license (or just keep on rewording stuff here). On the other hand, it now seems possible that you have a conflict of interest. I think that we need to resolve these issues before we consider the image rights etc. Images are really messy because having the thing in a family photograph album is often not the same as being the copyright owner. The entire thing is beginning to drift into an area of legalities and policies where I do not have a great deal of experience but which is well covered by other Wikipedia contributors. I am going to ask some of those to comment here, if they are willing. Please note: there is no need to fear that the article will be deleted: the subject is notable, I was aware of the issues when I passed it at AfC and I was also under the impression that there might be a connection between you and the subject matter, which is why I immediately did some work on it etc. Some would say that this was a risk not worth taking and, believe me, it is out of character because I am usually much tougher than this! We will both learn something from having another set of eyes look at it. - Sitush (talk) 00:18, 15 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
My sincere apologies if my queries are making things messy. If we get a ruling on the COI issue, I will be happy to work on re-wording this article or the text in dastgir.net. The basic facts of the article are fully documented in the service records of the subject at the Central Officers' Records Office (CORO) at Army Headquarters and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Dhaka, Bangladesh. Unfortunately these documents are in Bengali and it would be difficult to get official English translations. There are possibly five to six hundred newspaper articles which document the narrative -- but these are from pre-internet and pre-PC era, and electronic copies may not be available. I looked up the COI link and the intent here is not to promote any interest whatsoever -- but document factual details as precisely and judiciously possible. Once again I am grateful for your kind assistance with this -- and stand ready to help in any way I can.Rumman1966 (talk) 01:13, 15 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
No need to apologise, and we do have the important notion of assuming good faith here. It is also worth bearing in mind that it is not necessary that sources are available online. It certainly makes life easier, but it is not a requirement. What is required that that the statements are verifiable and that the sources used to verify are reliable and identifiable. You are getting a crash course in the workings of Wikipedia now, but that is no bad thing. Hopefully, you will be sticking around and contributing elsewhere in future and this sort of stuff will stand you in good stead. - Sitush (talk) 01:23, 15 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, and COI does not prohibit you from contributing to the article. It does, however, raise potential issues with your contributions. Well, not necessarily you in particular but COI contributors in general. In particular, there can be issues relating to neutrality and balance when COI contributors do their thing. - Sitush (talk) 01:32, 15 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. I was asked to give some feedback here. First, let's take care of the copyright issues. Rumman1966, if you own the website http://www.dastgir.net/ and authored the content that appears there, all you need to do to eliminate copyright concerns is to put this on your website:

The text of this website [or page, if you are specifically releasing one section] is available for modification and reuse under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution-Sharealike 3.0 Unported License and the GNU Free Documentation License (unversioned, with no invariant sections, front-cover texts, or back-cover texts).

Once you do that, we don't have to worry about rewording anything. Alternatively, you can put on that website "Copyright of the contents of this website is owned by Wikipedia editor Rumman1966." If you do that, then we have verification that you are the copyright owner, and simply by placing it here and agreeing to our Terms of Use, you are releasing the content under the proper license.

In terms of the images, this is a little more tricky. Just because the family owns the images doesn't mean they own the copyright in the images. Copyright is usually owned by the photographer, and copyright in a photograph extends in Bangladesh for 60 years after the death of the photographer. Complicating this, if the photograph was under copyright in Bangladesh in 1996, it will probably be copyrighted in the United States (the law that governs us) for 95 years from the date of publication - which isn't the date that the picture was taken, but the date that it was first made available to the public. That can be a very long time! Given that the Major General has passed away, you may be able to use one image of him under "fair use" allowances through the guidelines at non-free content. We can talk about this if you'd like to do that.

In terms of the COI, what's really crucial is to make sure that:

  • Everything you put on this website about the Major General can be verified to a reliable source published somewhere else. Reliable sources would include things like newspapers, magazines, respected official websites (military, for example). See "Identifying reliable sources". While everything you say about the Major General at your website may be true, we can't publish it here unless it's already been published somewhere else. This is because we have a policy against "original research" - that is, against including information (however true) that hasn't been published by somebody else. As an encyclopedia, our whole purpose is to tell people what other resources are saying. We're not publishers of first instance. :) See "No original research"
  • Everything you put on this website about the Major General must be strictly fair and neutral. You cannot use words that praise or promote him, and any information you include that seems to praise or promote him (like "Quickly rising to the then top rank of Major General in the Bangladesh Army ahead of all his military academy course mates") absolutely must include a reference to a reliable source that verifies this is true. See "Neutral Point of View"

Wikipedia does not recommend that people who are closely connected to subjects create articles about them, but once it's here, the main point is really to make sure it complies with these policies and guidelines. The idea is that when we feel strongly about something or hold special knowledge, we might not even recognize our own biases as we write.

I would, again, recommend resolving the copyright concerns first, either by releasing the website or verifying your identity there. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 12:25, 16 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

As instructed, I have put in the words "Copyright of the contents of this website is owned by Wikipedia editor Rumman1966." at the end of dastgir.net (I will try to figure out how to center the text but it will have to do for now). Hopefully that takes care of the copyright issue.
As I wrote to Sitush above, the basic facts of the article are fully documented in the service records of the subject at the Central Officers' Records Office (CORO) at Army Headquarters and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Dhaka, Bangladesh. Unfortunately these documents are in Bengali and it would be difficult to get official English translations. There are possibly five to six hundred newspaper articles which document the narrative -- but these are from pre-internet and pre-PC era, and electronic copies (especially internet links) may not be available. Some verifiable sources do exist in documents such as http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf&AD=ADA343489 (it's a huge file -- I recommend you do a search for "dastgir" to get to the relevant passages quicker) where the subject's appointment as Ambassador to Saudi Arabia is presented with some background information which relates to the text in the Wiki article. I will be happy to help in any way I can -- if you can suggest how to proceed.
Interesting information on the copyright issues with images. I had initially suggested a couple of photos of the General in uniform and a picture each from all his four terms as Ambassador -- in that case we might have ended up dealing with copyright issues from Thailand, Pakistan, Australia and Saudi Arabia (in addition to Bangladesh)! May be your one picture approach might be prudent for now. Of course, I can't help wonder if we could use some of the images on dastgir.net since I have claimed copyright on all its contents (texts and otherwise)?Rumman1966 (talk) 22:09, 16 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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