Talk:Purple Heart/Archive 2

This is an archive of past discussions about Purple Heart. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Most awarded under trivia

http://www.militaryforpaul.com/video.html

Most Awarded seems to be 11?

Also most trivia awarded might be put in history of the award... --Alanofverity 22:38, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure about the most awarded, but Joe R Hooper also recv'd 8 purple hearts and should be mentioned. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.250.33.252 (talk) 20:30, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Whether the most awarded is 9 or 11, a couple of things should be in the article. 1) The name or names of the person awarded the most Purple Hearts and 2) the number awarded. Of course, it should go without saying that there needs to be a legitimate, verifiable resource for that information. To only say that an Army soldier has 9 Purple Hearts without giving that soldier's name while giving several names of people who have received 8 Purple Hearts is bad research. Otherwise, I could say my dad received 12 of them - and he wasn't in active combat.Jtyroler (talk) 23:38, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

Where is the name for the Army veteran who has 9? 65.30.220.209 (talk) 18:51, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

I'm tagging citation needed for that until someone comes up with a source. —Ed!^(talk) 15:46, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

20th C design changes

i seem to remember once seeing a purple heart with mother-of-pearl where the purple enamel goes. it also seems like older ones had enamel and newer ones might be using expoy-paint or plastic resin. anyone *know*? Cramyourspam (talk) 00:15, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

An original Purple Heart from the 1930s was certainly made of different materials than you would find today. The WWII era medals were also cheaply made since medal alloys were scare and there was over a million PHs issued by 1945. Same deal in Korea & Vietnam - whenever a major war happened, the quality standard of the medal went down. Today, the PHs are pretty easily mass produced, but you still see differences between a Purple Heart minted in the 1980s with one today. Probably the rarest of the rare would be that window of time for medals created and issued between 1932 and 1937. The guys who had earned it during WWI but didn't stick around for WWII. I've read those medals were almost hand made and personalized, interesting since the Great Depression was going on at the same time. -OberRanks (talk) 21:16, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

Notable recipients and recipients of the most Purple Hearts

Good evening all. I reordered the list of notable recipients and recipients of the most Purple Hearts alphabetically, as I understand that to be a best practice. Splitting up recipients by conflict is problematic as there are some recipients who received the medal in more than one conflict. If any takes exception to this please let's discuss it here. Additionally, on the list of recipients of the most Purple Hearts it would appear that the current community consensus is 8 or more. One editor keeps adding a recipient who has 7, and I am not sure why. Cheers. EricSerge (talk) 01:34, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

The article is about the Purple Heart award, not about those of social status or celebrity status, who is a notable or more notable a recipient of the Purple Heart. This cuts off the ordinary people including those who lost eyes, limbs, and were KIA.
A list of most PH recipients by major wars (other war participation PH totals were included showing 8 PHs) is justified. Some recipients received 8 in two wars (who knows about any who received 8 or more in three wars). Matt Urban (MOH) who received 7 PHs in WWII gets deleted by the "Cheers" editor because Urban doesn't have 8, or 8 in two wars while some unnamed "soldier" without any verification for "9 PHs" is not deleted. The ones who received 8 PHs for 2 wars had less than 7 PHs for any one war (5 at the most)).— Preceding unsigned comment added by YahwehSaves (talk • contribs)

Get off of your soapbox please. The most Purple Hearts awarded to anyone individual is 8 total, that is what that last list indicates. Kill the anecdoatal statement to the army solider with 9 if it bothers you. If it is true and can be verified it will come back at that time.

Urban is listed above among the notable recipients already. If I did not know better I would think that you are somehow POV pushing on Urban based on your conflicts in editing that article in the past.

It does not matter what you think of "social status or celebrity status", we use notability on Wikipedia. You have to be notable, by Wikipedia standards, for inclusion.

I sign my talk page comments with "Cheers" because I try to be cheerful and friendly in my editing, and while I do not always agree with other editors I try to be civil. I would ask that you also remain civil and constructive in your comments, as I myself do. Cheers. EricSerge (talk) 03:34, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Though I added Matt Urban to the notable recipients list recently, I am saying a list of notable recipients isn't necessary for the article. Who has the most Purple Heart medals isn't necessary either (who knows how many refused PHs and or didn't report thier wounds especially medics). Does it really matter or improve the article (way it is now)? — Preceding unsigned comment added by YahwehSaves (talk • contribs)

To editor Lotje: Could you explain your logic in trimming the descriptions in the notable section? While I can see removing mentions of who was a presidential candidate at one time, I'm not sure why Pat Tillman is referred to as "Pat." Is there a guideline or essay you're looking at for this list? Chris Troutman (talk) 07:20, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

Hi, User:Chris troutman, Yes, my logic behind it: because of {{cleanup section |reason=Citations needed. Shorten descriptors to bare necessity. Keep one blue link per line|date=October 2013}} on the Notable recipients section. And no, there is no guideline or essay I was looking at for this list. I was in the opinion the comment I made "trying to cleanup" would be understood. Though I do not know why Pat Tillman was referred to as "Pat", I mentionned this because it "touching". If you think it is not correct, feel free to change it for the better. Lotje (talk) 12:50, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

500,000 manufactured? (in trivia)

Under trivia there is a note about how 500 thousand metals were manufactured prior to the canceled Japanese invasion of WWII. The link to the source has since been broken. This info just seem out of place anyways, even in the trivia section. Somebody needs to find a new citation (I haven't been able to) or else it should be deleted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.61.219.59 (talk) 01:36, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

The 500,000 is true, but I'm not sure that the stock has been exhausted. This article from 2003 says that there was a small order for new medals issued in 2000, but then they found 125,000 of the WW2 production in a warehouse which had been mislaid! -- Arwel (talk) 20:41, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

The cited source is dubious. It seems to be from one author, and I can't really tell whether he's a historian with solid credentials. There seems to be a rather detailed article written in 2000, but it has no citations. I've just emailed one of the mints that has produced medals for decades, and they may be able to sort it out. 205.178.85.15 (talk) 02:48, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

stars and oak leaf's on the same ribbon?

Lemuel C. Shepherd, Jr., USMC, is listed on wikipedia- in the article, on the cited sources, and in the photo, with a P.H. with 2 Oak Leaf Clusters and a star. From what I can gather, he was wounded twice at Belleau Wood (WW One), a third time in the Spring Offensive (also WW One), and a fourth time at Okinawa (WW Two). Was it something peculiar to do with the WWI service being under the American Expeditionary Forces? Thanks, Gecko G (talk) 20:14, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

@Gecko G: The cited source (for which I've corrected the link) states "Purple Heart with two Oak Leaf Clusters, France 1918 and one Gold Star, Okinawa" so the Corps doesn't recognize an additional award for World War I. Do you have a source that states otherwise? Chris Troutman (talk) 21:21, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

That's the same wording the arlington cemetery source has (linked from the article). Doesn't a Purple Heart ribbon with a total of 3 devices indicate 4 awardings?

"Purple Heart with two Oak Leaf Clusters, France 1918..." - would imply he was wounded 3 times in France in 1918 - which match's the prose portion - and thus earned 3 PH's, unless I misunderstanding something. Or, are you suggesting that the Corps considers all 3 as one single awarding and that the pair of OLCs -taken together- are some specially authorized accoutrement? Thank you, Gecko G (talk) 21:47, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

@Gecko G: I guess I misunderstood you. I would agree that a ribbon and three accouterments indicates a total of four awards although some services might have exceptions to that. The pair of OLCs certainly indicate two separate awards. Funnily, General Shepherd's Purple Hearts from WWI appear to pre-date USMC regulations that specify only stars for subsequent PHs. Chris Troutman (talk) 21:59, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

pre-dating the reg's would make sense - especially since these were retroactive awards for WWI and the PH was only created in '32. I've been looking into him and I found one source, unfortunately it's not a RS, that reads Separately, he was cited in the 2nd Division general orders on two other occasions and wounded three times. When the Silver Star and Purple Heart were established, these citations and wounds were recognized with a Silver Star with Oak Leaf Cluster and a Purple Heart with two Oak Leaf Clusters. so that would seem to support that idea. Other than one mention on page 67 of this, which was published in 1946, where he is listed with no star on the PH - all the others mention it as as 2 OLC & a star. Gecko G (talk) 21:33, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

Decoration?

Can a medal that is automatically awarded for any death or injury, whether inflicted in combat or by accident, be called a decoration?Royalcourtier (talk) 03:53, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

@Royalcourtier: The Army Regulation says:

"Individual awards are grouped into the following categories:
a. Decorations.
b. AGCM.

c. Campaign and service medals.

d. Service ribbons, badges, and tabs.

e. Certificates and letters.

"

So, since it's not in any of the other categories the Purple Heart is a decoration. Chris Troutman (talk) 04:18, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

Also, Royalcourtier, the Purple Heart is not awarded for "accidents" (the death, wound, or injury must have some nexus to combat); where are you getting this misinformation? CobraDragoon (talk) 16:44, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

Does this need to be in here?

While I appreciate that this is all factually true and well-cited, it seems unnecessary:

In an Oval Office ceremony on April 16, 2007, President George W. Bush accepted a Purple Heart presented to him by a Vietnam War veteran, who said the President had earned the medal by enduring verbal criticism from the public. Explained the veteran: "We feel like emotional wounds and scars are as hard to carry as physical wounds."[2][3] While there is no prohibition against legitimate purple heart recipients giving away medals, such “emotional wounds” are clearly not covered by the criteria for service members as outlined in B 2.and B 5. above.

In May 2006, a soldier made national headlines after giving his Purple Heart to a girl who had written many letters to troops. [4]

In May 2007, Vietnam veteran Jerrell Hudman announced that he planned to give one of his three Purple Hearts to George, a Jack Russell terrier. George died from injuries sustained when he saved a group of five children from being mauled by two pit bull terriers in New Zealand. [5]

It doesn't seem to have a lot of relevance on learning about the purple heart decoration. Anyone have any comments? - CredoFromStart ^talk 14:20, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Completely relevant — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.92.56.236 (talk) 23:12, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

Curry Haynes

To editor JBedsole: As I explained on my talk page, I have doubts about the veracity of these claims. I'm not going to edit war over it but I guarantee you're going to feel silly if you're proved a liar. Chris Troutman (talk) 21:00, 23 September 2017 (UTC)

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Possible removal from list

An entry in List of colors: N–Z contained a link to this page.

The entry is :

Purple Heart

I don't see any evidence that this color is discussed in this article and plan to delete it from the list per this discussion: Talk:List_of_colors#New_approach_to_review_of_entries

If someone decides that this color should have a section in this article and it is added, I would appreciate a ping.--S Philbrick (Talk) 12:53, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

Three Heart Rule

Apparently there is or was a "Three Heart Rule", whereby a soldier wounded three times in one tour of duty would be removed from combat. Worth a mention? Equinox ◑ 00:55, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

Support – Worth a mention Equinox ◑, if proper documentation to the rule is found. Official or unofficial would not seem to matter. It is mentioned in a few published articles, eg. During the Vietnam War, the U.S. military implemented a "three-heart rule, where if you were awarded three Purple Hearts, they'd send you home.. – ░▒▓ №∶72.234.220.38 (talk) 01:33, 4 July 2020 (UTC) ▓▒░

"Pruple heart" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Pruple heart. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 January 17#Pruple heart until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Dominicmgm (talk) 18:48, 17 January 2021 (UTC)